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  1. #21
    Player Minikom's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    93
    Character
    Minikomby
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Haste 2 should be useful for rdm or let cast gain spells on othes and plague spell
    (1)

  2. #22
    Player Trangnai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Rivicus
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    As much as people may disagree. Demonjustin is right. Especially with most updates to our spells and the class as a whole what we have gotten is lack luster, kinda niche. RDM shouldn't be thrown into a niche spot for its "fix" given 1 or 2 new unique spells that they will be asked to spam. As much as I love hearing we may get new spells in the future, what is the future for RDM as a job in general?

    I personally as much as I like RDM how it is now, thinks the entire class needs a redesign for todays game. Enfeebling magic isn't very potent (and is our best skill, great for solo play, but worthless in party content). everything else is lackluster in comparison to other classes, our enhancing, is self-target or single target. and everything but refresh II can be done better by a whm unless its a merit spell which we are limited in cause they are merits.

    Many people, especially those playing RDM today. See it as a hybrid class which should be able to fill many roles. Maybe not all at once. But should be able to fill.
    RDM is by far my favorite job in the game, I have many memories attached to it, and as such I want it to prosper. But I cannot help but say the dev team gives us mixed signals and/or doesnt acknowledge what the playerbase that is playing RDM wants. Some of us play backline, some frontline, some solo. But at least in all of these situations I see no place where I can, as RDM fit into this content.

    Maybe its just me, but judging by the other posts on this board I'm not the only one. Nor, are we the only class suffering from the exclusion from content.

    I don't feel RDM or any class, should be stuck in a "cast 2 spells and stand there role" I personally soloed 1-75 cause I didn't want to be a refresh/haste spammer from 41+ (the later levels while mostly soloed, abyssea didn't really care much for role, so i could enjoy sitting there and meleeing an EXP alliance in abyssea).

    I love the things we are getting, I would like to see more daggers. But I'm still confused as to weather my rdm will ever be relevant in current content.
    (2)

  3. #23
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    410
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I agree with Demonjustin and Trangnai, Red Mage needs a dramatic overhaul to fit into today's FFXI. A lot of the functions of Red Mage were built in a time they were necessary and desirable.

    Refresh was practically non-existent for the most part outside of food, medicine and Vermillion Cloak. Fast Cast was also something only Red Mage excelled at, so it made it beneficial. Combat was a lot slower paced (outside NMs mostly and not timed events), so enfeebles mattered. Red Mage's B skill in combat was enough back then to make use of melee and enspells in between magic tasks especially because equipment haste, multi-attacks, etc. wasn't abundant. Merited spells were potent because at the time of inception, no one else had equivalents. Now other jobs have access to enhancements/enfeebles much more potent than Red Mage or share the ones we have. None of what this job is built on is unique today, FFXI is completely different.

    I won't derail this into yet another Red Mage suggestion to changes thread as there are a ton of them on this forum. Red Mage, in short, needs a major overhaul to be brought into today's game that a few niche spells will not fill and shouldn't. The class is the most true definition of "jack of all trades" but in a very outdated system.

    Don't let the fear and ignorance of Red Mage's past, prevent creating its future. A lot of that is not one single job's fault, but issues with other jobs and battle design itself.
    (6)
    Last edited by Rwolf; 05-29-2014 at 05:10 AM. Reason: grammar

  4. #24
    I'm generally on board with the last few guys, but one issue. You described the "jack of all trades" aspect of rdm that makes you like to play the job, fair enough, it's the element of the job I like the most too. what is forgotten is the 2nd half of that phrase "master of none". And the problem with that is the people designing cookie-cutter strategies for end-game only design for "master of one" in their job builds. They do allow 1 jack of all trades slot, but that goes almost exclusively to sch.

    Now, if SE does make us the master buffer or enfeebler or DoT or whatnot that's great, but they need to see if that's something that would be enough to put us in those strategies. And this time they might just want to do it in such a way as to not make the other game jobs undesireable. Difficult when cookie-cutter thinking dominates end-game strategies, as there will be only 1 6 man build allowed, meaning that-assuming no overlap-16 jobs will still be on the end-game scrap heap.
    (0)

  5. #25
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    The Master of None part of the title is important but it's almost always exaggerated in practice. The idea we must not be the best at anything is one that I am ok with following but the question is what exactly do we define as a category for which we could be called master of? If the question is Enhancing Magic pure and simple then yes adding buffs to the job in this regard may make us a master in the field more so than any other job, but what of buffing as a whole? If we get Haste II & Temper II to cast on others we will still not beat out a BRD who can throw down 2 Attack Songs and 2 Marches, let alone Soul Voice, and easily out match those effects. Also you must ask how far behind must we be before it becomes too little or too much? Right now our DMG is far behind others in optimum situations and RDM's optimum is much harder to obtain than that of the average DD who matches our DMG. While the 'Master of None' part of our title is so very important it's very hard to place exactly where on the scale we belong, we obviously should not be best, nor second likely, but the gap between what we are and what we need to be in order for our versatile nature to be viable is far too wide as of right now.
    (1)

  6. #26
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    410
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I don't think it's forgotten, I just don't believe it's necessary to say. I agree with Demonjustin on the emphasis of "that title is almost always exaggerated in practice". The idea that we have to sacrifice not being the best at something for versatility is outdated. A heft amount of the jobs now are very versatile in this game (tanking, healing, buffing, debuffing, MP conservation, cast speed, and dealing physical/magic/breath damage) and yet have unique strengths unto themselves. That's why I finished that sentence saying "in an outdated system".

    I don't think master of none needs to be part of Red Mage's title. It just doesn't fit modern FFXI, in a current game full of nothing but versatility in other jobs and not enough slots. They need to be iconic and master of something in this age. Scholar isn't invited for its ability to be a "jack of all trades" (though it's a nice bonus), it's invited because it also has mastery over a couple things no other job can do. Red Mage at this point needs more than a few enfeebles/enhancements to be competitive. They need to redo a lot of things including enspells, enfeebles, enhancing, merit point 1 category taking up 6 slots for magic accuracy, merit point 2 being spells that should be scrolls + higher versions, stymie... I digress on getting into details as a lot of fellow Red Mages have covered a lot of these in suggestions over the years. They just need to stop taking them and making new jobs. (;¬_¬)
    (1)

  7. #27
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098
    Though still off topic, albeit more on topic than the last few posts, I have hopes that the Job Point system will fix a couple of our issues at least in some sense. Specifically 2 things that stand out as large issues are the lack of a more powerful effect on spells like Paralyze & Slow and En-spells. Were they to add 1 point of DMG to En-spells per point that'd be +30 once the system reaches it's final cap, that's 65 DMG on our En-spells which could actually help our melee quite a bit. At the same time increasing Paralyze or Slow Potency with JPs in the same way would also greatly help those spells and make them very powerful even with their inability to lock down TP moves as it would lock down normal attacks quite effectively. With RDM's complete and utter lack of Job Abilities in any meaningful number I'm hoping they will turn to our spells and their potency for our Job Point effects.
    (1)

  8. #28
    I wasn't saying Master needs to be part of our description, my point is for the cookie cutters we DO have to be the best at something necessary if rdm wants a spot in those end-game builds, at least the way people design those strats. I agree with the above posts that if we are properly adjusted per Cam's post, coupled with an increase in our elemental skill, and maybe healing as well we might get some respect for those builds.
    (0)

  9. #29
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    410
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I agree that we do need to be the best at something simply because that is FFXI right now. I sincerely hope they don't try to fix Red Mage through Job Points. It's something that needs to naturally occur as a job update, similar to what they did for Scholar through a series of major updates and not locked behind arduous trials. They have no intent on easing up on Job Points with the thought it's a casual reward process that you'll gradually earn. In my opinion, I don't believe it is ok for Red Mage to just become a complete job with merits/job points making it essential to put points in them.
    (1)

  10. #30
    Player Raydeus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    MogVault 101
    Posts
    603
    Personally I wouldn't want any huge changes to RDM because even with all the problems I actually like how the job plays. Most of my complaints come from SE's active attempts at blocking RDM's access to equipment, spells, traits and weapons that we should have access to as a hybrid class.

    That said, if I was able to change RDM in any way I wanted I would probably do something like this:

    Weapons

    Swords : More focus on Rapiers with Acc/Dex/parry/Enspell damage bonuses. Less DMG rating and higher attacking speed, and the piercing bonuses/penalties that entails.
    Daggers : More utility daggers with low delay and damage ratings and bonuses to M.Acc/INT/Crit rate/Enspell damage

    Armor


    Shields : Bucklers, just more bucklers with different bonuses to Shield skill, bonus to Phalanx, elemental defense and status resist. RDM needs magical based bucklers.

    Body Armor : Access to most of the medium armor that jobs like THF and BLU have access to. Also, it's just odd our AF1 is really the only RDM AF armor that actually acknowledges RDM can actually melee AND cast in battle.

    Spells

    Dia : Back to Divine magic skill.

    Enspells
    : Rework of damage formulas so Enspell damage scales much better with skill. With elemental resistance attributes of the target playing a much bigger role on the amount of damage being dealt. Simply put I want to be able to deal Enspell 200 dmg if I use the proper Enspell in battle, and deal only 2 dmg if I don't.

    Spikes II
    : For RDM, WHM, BLM, and I'm including all 6 spikes spells in this with tweaks to some effects and adding elemental/status resistances to them.

    -Blaze Spikes II : Stronger fire damage, +Ice resistance and lowers M. Acc of ice based bebuffs/DoTs (Paralyze, Bind, Frost, etc.)

    -Ice Spikes II : Stronger Paralyze effect, +Wind resistance and lowers M. Acc of Wind based debuffs/DoTs (Silence, Gravity, Anemohelix, etc.)

    -Shock Spikes II : Stronger Stun effect, +Water resistance and lower M. Acc of Water based debuffs/DoTs

    -Aquaveil II : Stronger Guard against interruption effect, +Fire resistance and lowers M. Acc. of Fire based debuffs/DoTs for 3 mins even if the Interruption Guard effect is consumed before the 3 mins are up.

    -Blink II : Instead of 2 random Shadows it adds a (fairly low) chance to negate single target attacks for the duration of the effect, and a 3 mins duration instead of 5. Adds Resistance to Earth and lowers M.Acc of Earth based debuffs/DoTs

    -Stoneskin II : Stronger effect, +Thunder resistance and lowers M. Acc of Thunder based debuffs/DoTs for 3 mins even if the damage absorb effect is consumed before the 3 mins are up.

    Phalanx III : For RDM and PLD. Stronger effect (60 dmg cap instead of 35 @500 skill), and receives a bonus when using a shield based on Shield Mastery level (5 extra dmg absorbed per level)

    Job Traits

    Fencer
    : /10 char

    Resist Status (Trait) : Substitutes Resist Petrify with a Resist against all status effects trait, with a bit higher activation rate (I've only resisted a petrify ONCE in more than 10 years playing RDM.)

    We are the masters of enfeebling and enhancing, we should at least have some slight insight into how to resist most status effects.

    Abilities

    Triple Cast : This Ability would probably the most controversial and difficult to implement. The way I see it working would be in a similar way to setting Blue mage spells where we could set 3 spells that could be cast simultaneously when using the Ability. Casting time would be the average between the three and the ability would have a 5-10 min cooldown.

    Spell cost requirements, interruption rate and recast times would remain unaffected.

    Limitations would be that the spells would need to be of the same type to be grouped together or you would get an error. For instance, you could cast 3 enhancing spells on yourself or a party member (if applicable) using Triple cast, but not a combination of nuking and enhancing spells. As they would require different targets for in order to work. Also, since spell effects would be applied one after the other if you use spells that replaced each other you would end up with less effects than desired.

    Example : Rasp + Frost + Drown would stick on the mob using the ability. But if you used Shock + Rasp + Choke only Choke would remain on the mob.


    And finally, if you made it all the way here without falling asleep then I congratulate you for your patience and endurance. Which incidentally are the trademarks of the great RDMs.
    (0)

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