luck attribute

[Deifact]

COR isn't totally at the mercy of a random number generator though. They get abilities like Snake Eye to manipulate the outcome of "luck" to be more favourable.

THF is at the mercy of luck just as much as every other job, like Karbuncle explained above, THF just gets more roll of the RNG dice. If you look into reward systems, Luck is actually a very effective way of keeping people hooked on a task (i.e. keeping people playing).

Humour me by allowing me to describe some psychology. When people do things, they generally get rewarded, but the schedule of this reward has a big impact on whether the person continues to do whatever it is they're being rewarded for.
Two examples are what are called "fixed" schedules. These can be described in the way jobs and commission works. A "fixed interval" schedule is for example getting paid £10 an hour for working. A "fixed ratio" would be like commission, I.E you get given £20 for each 10 sales you make.
The other two are "variable interval" and "variable ratio". "Variable interval" works like random drug testing at work. "Variable ratio" is like playing a slot machine in a casino.

The most powerful reward schedule for getting someone to do something, is variable ratio. Any sort of gambling system works on a variable ratio schedule, because people think "oh but I might win this time!" and continue on and on into infinity.

Online games (or most games) work on this variable ratio system. You will keep going back and killing that NM because you never know, it might drop this time! Because of this "hook" the games have, they will never add a "luck" stat that you can improve and in turn, increase the chances of an item dropping (and therefore, reducing the "hook" effect to keep you playing and paying) UNLESS the method of increasing the "luck" stat is in itself an item you have to pay for with real money.

Sorry for the waffling post, but if you want to read more about it, you can check the wikipedia article for Reinforcement schedules here.

[Blah]

Yeah but what I was talking about was that (And this is what actually got me thinking) that some were arguing that thief is more of a single player rpg job, not an mmorpg job. Corsair too but corsair could maybe just be renamed, thief has had an unfair monopoly on what should have been abilities for all the jobs. Treasure hunter? That should have been given to all jobs, all the steal abilities too but instead they brought in thief and, well, basically enabled many of the rmt players and caused much of the problems they ended up having to hire a task force to deal with. And you could say well there was no stopping that but still, they might have had a bit more control over it had they just left thief out. Now that I think of it a luck attribute (of any kind) would just "explain" thief being here not really make it fair to have thief here. If that makes sense. But it would at least make it fair for corsair.

[Deifact]

Treasure hunter? That should have been given to all jobs, all the steal abilities too but instead they brought in thief and, well, basically enabled many of the rmt players and caused much of the problems they ended up having to hire a task force to deal with. And you could say well there was no stopping that but still, they might have had a bit more control over it had they just left thief out.

Hmm yeah it does make THF a bit unfair, Steal is pretty useless and i've heard suggestions of changing it to steal a temporary item like you get from blue treasure chests (which is similar to how GW2 THF works). I think everyone would agree Treasure Hunter has been a THF gimmick that has caused more harm than good for the job as it's kept the job somewhat relevant but in doing so prevented SE from making changes to THF to make it better.

SE tried to make THF more viable without Treasure Hunter by making it manipulate enmity but it's such a niche role that I doubt it really makes any difference.

If they changed how steal works, and removed Treasure Hunter, SE could maybe focus on making THF better.

[Blah]

Well now I wouldn't say remove it altogether because, face it without ol' TH at all those of us who farm and still try to get quest items and that would be in for some loooong tear-filled days. It could just be given to every job at level 3 or maybe 4 and maybe just take TH off of all gear and weapons. Then the only thing that'll make it go up is treasure hound which would only be to TH5 and hopefully that plus the lack of rmts in the game could keep things simple and fair. Eeeep or are you talking about just remove it from thief?

[Blah]

Ah and I hate to point this out but if that is really what game developers are doing to put luck in the game (either mathematically calculating it or using a random number generator to simulate it) then as long as SE is using the random number generator for Corsairs abilities, Thief's steal abilities and learning blue magic and that then they do have game luck (not even calling it real life luck, chance, coincidence or fate)...as a matter of fact don't they use it for those game tables? (which I never play) I used to see some playing it but I don't anymore why did they put it there at all if again they don't want "luck" in the game?

[Dragoy]

Well now I wouldn't say remove it altogether because, face it without ol' TH at all those of us who farm and still try to get quest items and that would be in for some loooong tear-filled days.

You make it seem as if treasure hunter was required for one to be able to get some items. I certainly never needed it, even though I have had thief leveled up for ages, I actually rarely made use of it with any special items. I'd more use it if I was hunting some more common items, but even so, it was rather rare, and certainly not required! ^^;

It actually seemed that I had more “luck” in getting special items I wanted without treasure hunter in effect.

as a matter of fact don't they use it for those game tables? (which I never play) I used to see some playing it but I don't anymore why did they put it there at all if again they don't want "luck" in the game?

Yes, that's luck fer sure. A dice roll, only gravity isn't affecting it since (I'd guess) they use pseudo-randomness to produce the effect. There are ways of being at least a bit more random than that, however. See for example random.org.

Yes, nearly all games rely on luck, to some extent. However, when developers speak of luck, it is, as has been mentioned, not something one can program (yet) and produce artificially. It would probably have to be magic.

Do you consider a result of a physical dice roll to be all about luck? Depends on how one perceives luck, but if you really think about it, is the result simply not a sum of how the dice were rolled (how they are being held before the roll, how strongly they are rolled, how far, et cetera). This is why for true random things like atmospheric noise is used, which I guess is, to a human, truly random.

Computers are way less capable in producing random numbers, since they have to follow a pattern to be able to form a result. A pattern that is programmed by a human. That is, unless they rely on noises, or something else like that.


So yes, they want luck to be a part of the game. Put in other words, they want players to not be able to get what they want on first try: enter drop-rates, which are set to be calculated in whatever-they-feel-like, and are not fair in the grand scheme of things (imagine someone gets an item on their first try, while another needs 1000 tries). But I digress.


Just a few, quick-like thoughts!

Went on for much longer than intended though. Ooopsies!

[Blah]

Yes well I believe if they are trying to make that point (there is no "luck" in video games) the point would be better made if there is a fixed system. It probably won't help none because they're so used to using it already but just having a set value for things is the way to go if you really don't want game luck in the game.

[Blah]

And by the way...there is a way to much more accurately get luck in the game....or at least a way that they can test it at least and get better results than mathematically calculated luck or simulated luck.