A Suggestion From The Pet Job Community: Stop Ignoring Us and Listen To Our Plea.

[Olor]

ranger is by far the most expensive job to play not bst

Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.

I agree with this; As a bst, I actually use jugs and make money off of them. Farming sucks, but the mats are fairly common; minus the mandy I believe; but he sucks imo anyway, lol^^

There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

[WoW]

Doesn't ranger have 90+ recycle rate? My pets have 0% recycle rate - and you don't have to heal your bullets to ensure they do damage.... Please also note - RNG gets invited to endgame content. BST costs a lot AND is not welcome in real endgame.



There is not a single activity I have found yet where I make more money as a BST than as a different job that costs $0 to play. Dynamis? Thf (even gimped it makes more money than BST) Voidwatch? BLU. Meebles? BLU (also doesn't make much money), BCNM? BLU or THF.

What exactly can BST do in terms of making money that other jobs can't do without spending a cent?

I do not spend a dime on jugs. If i do; I am in a rush/being lazy because I can make them. I practically give away jugs and food for free. I get a ton of Akaso and other jug materials from harvesting; synergy makes 6 of them; I usually sell the left overs which can lead to alot of $$$. Any job can make money; jugs just have never been a major issue obtaining (Can only speak from my experience; I am a cook and synergist); more so their efficacy and the removal of moves were my only gripe. I do not mind spending money; however, our current pet selection and the mysterious removal of moves does not equate to the price; so i do not buy them, lol; I make them. They are not worth it imo, i will say that. my jug can last me through an activity the majority of the time; however, rngs are constantly firing off $$$. Regardless of the difficulty, rngs need those bullets and arrows to be..well..a job. I do not go through pets like a rng does ammo. perhaps there are rngs that make their own ammo, however, they are constantly firing them off which can still be a headache even with traits.

Imo, if they release a a lvl119 Wivre jug with boiling blood, the -50% attack down roar, crippling slam and granite hide, no one would be complaining if it cost 400k a stack; because it is worth it. Pet acc can become an issue. however, a non-gimped pet would solve alot of problems.

Edit: People may still complain; lol, however, the pet's efficacy may trumps the the price in most instances. i mean, ppl complain about reforged armor material prices, but most may buy them because the efficacy may trump the price in some instances.

[Debmaeda]

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

Let me save the game developers some time. That will not be a good enough "fix" to make Pet Jobs desirable for 115+ group content. Mind you that Ramuh Shocksqual and Geomancer Nuking may be among the few exceptions, but they were not of intentional design.

I remember a very long time ago, seeing a Bst buff a charmed bat in Garlaige Citedal with protect. Whether or not it was an intended game-play mechanic at that time is irrelevant at this time. What is relevant is that the ability to buff pets can be implemented, because at one time, it did in-fact exist.

Food for pets is not going to cut it at this stage in FFXI's life. A few years ago it might have been a great addition, but at this point it will not turn a pet into an i119 DD, tank, or nuker. Pets can easily destroy opponents beneath their own level, but when it comes to fighting one's that are above them, it becomes a matter of spamming pets until the opponent is dead. Spamming DDs; spamming tanks; spamming nukers, has never been the best of strategies in FFXI, it has always been a last ditch effort to bring down an opponent that just has the power to wreck anything in its path, or it reaches a point where it just rampages. The reason PCs have a better shot at winning in such circumstances, is do to offensive and defensive buffs AND curing from other PCs.

All the Pet job Job Abilities that buff pets and the trace amounts of -petdamage on gear do not compare to Cure IV, V; they do not compare to Protect V and Shell V, they do not compare to Regen V, they do not compare to Elemental Barspells, they do not compare to Madrigal, Minuet, or Scherzo, they do not compare to Chaos Roll. Those things I just previously mentioned are what keep players alive or going in the most dire of circumstances against deadly foes. What do pets get? And in the case of Corsair, no intelligent or sane group is going to allow Corsair's to use their rolls to buff pets instead of players.

The Dev's response to this entire thread thus far is:

"We were making food for pets, but since you're unsatisfied with Pet Jobs' roles in the FFXI community at this time, we will increase its intended effects. We will then wait and see how that affects things."

That is not an acceptable response. That is a lawyer's dodge to the topic at hand.

This thread's purpose was to implement the ability to cast Player buffs on pets. The Pet job community wants a direct response as to why what is being asked to be implemented would not be done so; and I say "would not", because it can be done, it just comes down to a matter of choice and reasoning by the development team.

I talked with Shin about this campaign of his, and I brought up Stymie as an example to point out the Dev's attitude toward the players. We play "THEIR" game, but it's a game they themselves don't even play. That is fact I have never liked.

I would like to thank the Community Reps for their continued role as go-between for us Players and the Game Developers. You provide the through-way for the language barrier that separates our two groups, and I personally appreciate your continued presence and efforts. Thank you very much.

[Glamdring]

Olor, outside instanced content my bst is back to using charmed pets, cuts that bite in the wallet way down, especially since I don't care if my pet dies, I'll just grab another. and I don't have great charm gear. just a thought.

and to the devs, how about some charmable pets in the instanced content? I miss doing things like a 6 beast Worm's turn BCNM and the like.

[Rwolf]

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

[Kombys]

Hey Camate pleease tell DEV team to add another forms to get bard songs example carnagey elegy has horrible drop rate or valor minuet 4, drop rate is too low and not many is interested to do old lv 60 bcnms anymore, if they could add those spells to new bcnms REM chapters, should be cool

[Donquichot]

Thank you for this response Camate. I just got 1 thing to ask, since i know the dev team can forget this. Please dont forget the pet: ranged accurracy stat when you are making new foods. I can really see them forget this stat because pup is the only job using this stat. thank you and i cant wait for next month!

[Psion]

While i'm glad to see pet acc food, and the fact their acc increase will be higher than the masters, it's going to need to be a MASSIVE boost to make pets relevant to endgame fights, physically. Here is a comparison of how massive it needs to be.

My automaton has this stats with 3 thunder maneuvers, dual stabilizers and optic fiber, dual tension springs, scope, +10 acc and ranged acc from hurch'lan sash, capped melee and ranged skill, and 5/5 melee and ranged merits:

-Oniwaka:

Primary acc: 752
Primary attack: 902
Ranged acc: 792
Ranged attack: 958

Now here are my own stats, without buffs, ninja sub, and just bream sushi. My gear isn't perfect either, but it's fairly good. I have a +2 niznas along with an average ilvl of 117. And no, none of it is espial or wayfarers, just reforged af, otronif +1, manibozho boots, and the like.

-Psion:

Primary acc: 929
Primary att: 862

Unlike my automaton, however, this is with capped gear haste, I can maintain this sort of stats fulltime while meleeing, and unlike oniwaka I don't get a new one torn within seconds because I have defensive buffs and someone to cure me. Even if you buff pets attacks, they are incredibly fragile on anything of importance. believe me, having done hard mode AA and delve runs as pup, i can testify just how fragile they are. Even the whm automaton can barely handle it, and it's only able to survive at all because it can cure itself right after a single AoE takes it down to nearly 100 hp left from full. Thats WITH the delve bosses having almost all their nasty moves being stunned.

And those are my stats without any buffs. with the typical bard and cor set up, my melee acc is more like 1000-1050ish depending on what buffs are being used, and i'm often /war, so my attack often hovers around 1000-1300. Even with that, I generally parse around 85-90% acc on hard mode fights, and just barely cap acc with sushi in delve 1 runs. That means oniwaka needs around 200 more melee acc and 150ish ranged acc just to not be at the acc floor for those runs. Considering sushi caps at around 59 acc or so depending on which type, this new pet sushi has to be almost 4 times as effective for the pet as for the master, and it has to be at least as good as normal sushi for the master to begin with. Now, I like to get my hopes up as much as the next guy, but I've played this game since zilart came out in NA, and I know that SE typically doesn't like to throw pet jobs much more than a small bone once in a while to choke on. I fully expect this new pet sushi to give around 60-80 acc, at best, to the pets, which does absolutely nothing to help us out.

By the way. us pups are still waiting on the dev team to fix attuner and target marker on ilvl mobs. You know, those things that are critical for our automatons to hit monsters higher level than us? Yeah, they're still broken after months of waiting. If tools that were critical to any other job were broken this long, such as warrior's berserk not giving an attack boost, there would be a massive outrage and an emergency maintenance within hours of it coming to light. Why has our job suffered this long without it being fixed when those alone would close the gap somewhat on pups massive accuracy issues? While your at it, why not change tension springs and stabilizers from static increases to % att and acc boosts? And considering our black mage automaton can't nuke for beans anymore, why not give us a new attachment that gives them a large magic damage boost like other mage jobs gets, and another that changes their AI from a teir V nuke every 30-40 seconds to spamming teir I spells constantly like black mages do now? (or teir II for higher magic accuracy if it detects teir I isnt enough) Fix these and pet survival issues and maybe, just maybe, you'd see pet jobs actually invited to events instead of having to force our friends to take us along with them, or change to another job. As it is, I have to gear entirely for myself as the puppetmaster and pretend my automaton is nothing more than a way to dump my hate, and occasional bonus cures. Some puppetmaster I am.

TD:LR

-new pet acc food has to be massive increases for the pet. like, at least 200 accuracy massive so that pets won't have floored acc on any fights that matter. Hard mode BCNMs, delve bosses, rakaznor skirmish, you name it.

-automatons target marker and attuner are still broken after months of waiting, despite them being critical attachments to a puppetmasters arsenal of tools on tougher fights. fix them, already. im serious. fix them now. not next update, not two updates from now. now. I don't care if you have to take the servers down for emergency maintenence, because it's an emergency, by the goddess.

-automatons nuking is sadly outdated, when before it was well balanced against black mage. the automatons nukes were far more powerful than a black mage, but they couldn't burst nuke like a black mage could. in the end, their damage was equal over time. Nowadays a summoner practically can toss a stone II for higher damage than my automatons ice makered, full powered, thunder V on mobs, and at far less time and mp. Automatons need a teir II tranquilizer, a new attachment that boosts their magic damage like the ilvl staves mages get to use now, and a new attachment that changes their behavior into spamming low teir nukes nonstop.

-pets in general are squishy. Why not take a page from ffxiv and make it so that pets don't take much damage from AoEs they aren't a direct target of? Considering pets are rarely the main target on harder fights, this would be a simple solution to pet survival issues, without promoting petburns to the exclusion of all other jobs.

-whatever fixes you have in mind, make them ridiculously overpowered, because your idea of overpowered is what the player base considered overpowered 6 years ago. triple the effects of whatever you have in mind and you just might get pet jobs in the right ballpark of being fixed. I know no one likes being nerfed, but the pet situation is so severe now after conservative fixes that haven't kept up with updates to other jobs, that no one will complain if you suddenly make pet jobs godlike then nerf it back to something more balanced. They will thank you far more than pet sushi with pet: acc +50.

(seriously, make that pet sushi give at least 200 acc and ranged acc to the pet.)

[Shinron-PUP]

Hello, everyone.

Rest assured that the development team has not forgotten about pets, nor are they ignoring your feedback. Everything is being taken in and considered for adjustments.

The first adjustment that they are planning, as we mentioned previously, is the addition of food that will affect both the master and the pet. Amongst this new food, there will be accuracy enhancing food, much like sushi, that will increase the accuracy for both the master and the pet. These new foods will be added in the next version update.

Also, due to the fact that pets cannot receive enhancements from songs and such, the development team is planning to make the effect received from food higher for pets than what the player receives.

Before any further adjustments are made, we’d like to start by implementing this first and monitoring the situation for a while. After the version update is live, please be sure to try out the food and let us know your feedback.

We are all truly grateful that the community reps and development team have taken out the time to respond to our pet job thread, but I think we're still getting no where even after your response. The development team should know very well that pet food alone isn't going to amend any of the issues pets and pet jobs face currently. Sadly this is just yet another little toy for us to play with so we're satisfied for a little while longer, then once we realize that it has done nothing to satisfy the problem, we'll be at it again asking for you guys to fix us.

The implementation of pet food is definitely a long awaited addition to pet jobs and is very welcomed, but it will at most only somewhat solve accuracy issues. What happens as content level progresses? The stats that food effects give are static and do not increase with character levels, so by the time we're dealing with higher level enemies in the future, when you guys decide to release new content, we'll just fall behind accuracy wise again then need to ask for another update to fix our accuracy. I'm sorry, but every solution you guys keep coming up with to fix pet jobs are all temporary solutions, and every year or two we keep running into the issue that pet jobs are out of date, and need some fine-tuning again. What we want is a solution that will stand the test of time. In two years we don't want to have to address the same issue again because once again pets can't hit monsters.

As players, it shouldn't be our job to remind you guys every time that pet jobs are out of date; pets being out of date shouldn't even happen. When you guys fix a problem, it should be a one time fix that is permanent, and not be a temporary fix that will again need to be addressed in the future as new content comes out. We pay to play Final Fantasy, and not to spend time on the forums trying to figure out solutions for you and remind you that there's a problem. I think it's safe to assume that everyone who has invested time in this thread have done so because we're tired of coming back year after year to address the same issues.

Please, all we are asking for is that you come up with a real solution. Accuracy, Attack, and other bonuses that food can add to pets are but a fraction of the problems that prevent pets and pet jobs from being compatible in end game and group content. I do realize that you said that adding food is but one of the many plans you guys have in store for pets, but we seriously shouldn't have to wait one to two years for you guys to finally get around to fixing the problem. The development team knows very well what the problems of pet jobs are: Accuracy, Attack, Survival, etc. and are very well aware of how to fix them, so please don't take the easy route by fixing one minor problem and expecting that to solve everything like pet food. It will take much more than that to solve the pet job issue once and for all.

[WoW]

I agree with Olor, Beastmaster is currently really expensive compared to other classes. If you decided to level Cooking and make your own resources, that's awesome. But it shouldn't be a requirement to be cost effective. It's the same argument people use to give for Ranger, to raise Woodworking and Smithing to play the job.

Ranger has an absurd amount of Recycle. Which is on also on gear that is worth using for damage and with Relic Cap, considerably boosts your damage. Plus Ranger has Scavenge to return a good deal of that 10% ammo spent. Even Ninja and Corsair have abilities and gear that reduce their consumption of items. Not only that but have universal tools to even further reduce their inventory and gil loss. Beastmaster is growing to need more and more consumables with zero amounts of recovery or consolidation of inventory.

Charmed pets are also are so incredibly weak now in level 100+ content compared to using a jug pet. It is basically just a free pet and no other pet job is so severely penalized with free pets. Pet food is a great step in the right direction for pet jobs but Beastmaster definitely needs cost reductions. I still see no reason why a Beastmaster pet can't zone with you and reappear you go into a city, if all other pets are capable of it. I don't see why jug pets need a duration timer either. I'm sure it doesn't make crafters happy but it didn't stop them when it came to Ninja, Ranger, and Corsair.

I see what you are saying; but if you do not lvl crafts, that is on you tho, no harm no foul; that is just the way it is. Even if I did not make my own; personally, jugs are not that expensive considering the various non-crafting money making methods in this game. Harvesting is pretty inexpensive; I get asked to make some jugs for ppl when they bring the mats; so you do not have to lvl a craft; but it is nice to have.

I do agree that it should not be necessary; however, how long have players been complaining about bst? Since its' release if I recall correctly. Bst has flawed mechanics to begin with. I honestly feel that if SE could go back in time and delete bst and pup from the game; they would do so. Charm has bad game-play mechanics, because wild animals are not always available and some are they are rather weak at 99. Jugs are a better concept, however, it leads to complaining about prices. Jugs should be obtained from a quest and be usable at will, but still have the same call beast timer restrictions. For instance; a quest that grants you a scorpion jug (yes, I am not letting this go, lol) which does not consume. Pet food should still be crafted because they are not essential; the pet is.