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  1. #11
    Player saevel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    2,345
    Character
    Saevel
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    WHM and SCH are fairly balanced in the healing department. The reason we pick WHM is two fold, first is they are the kings of AoE curing and everything in this game likes to spam AOE's, second is ST cures get cureskin which often saves people's lives when the NM is being evil. SCH has those massive Regens that make every WHM jealous, this makes SCH the kings of hate free healing / super cheap healing. It just happens to be that our fights these days cater more to WHM healing, though SCH does an amazing job in AA fights.
    (0)
    Quote Originally Posted by Raelix
    Ragnarok's aftermath is only 5% crit rate, even with lv99, so there's almost no point in using Scourge, you just spam Resolution. Even then you become just a boring meathead DD.

    Apoc with both Catastrophe and Entropy gives you crazy sustain of both HP and MP. With the Haste aftermath you can wear a ton of -PDT and solo almost any 75 content.
    Doing damage is for WAR's, DRK is about soloing 75 content yo.....

  2. #12
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    RDM and SCH are better healers than WHM when there's only one target to heal. For example in a VD Ark Angel fight where you use RNG as your main source of damage with only the PLD taking any damage, I'd rather have a good RDM or SCH than a WHM. Sure WHM gets cureskin and Cure V/VI but those are superfluous because ideally the PLD should never get rocked hard enough to warrant such a powerful heal. I've main healed on SCH and RDM on VD AA fights with RNG setups and RDM can Para/Slow/Grav/Dia the NM and still Cure IV instantly for 850+ while casting Haste and -na's and Phalanxing the PLD. SCH can do the same but also Adoloquiem the RNGs, give Regen V which on PLD basically means they dont even need to be cured at all, can virtually afk if they have Ochain even in a VD fight.

    The only content I see WHM clearly outclassing other healers is with melee setups where you need Curagas. For 6man fights, RDM and SCH are VERY viable and I have attested to that personally, and sometimes offer competitive edges vs WHM. Another example is Tenzen fight. Can help sleep Tarus, and since DDs have /NIN they don't need to be cured pretty much ever until he does Skillchains.
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player sweetidealism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    86
    Character
    Lumei
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Personally, I feel that, at the very least, WHM RDM and SCH should each be much closer to each other in terms of main healing capabilities. I think this could be achieved by giving SCH and RDM more tools to specialize their healing styles.

    WHM is and should remain the master of direct, reactionary healing throughput and aoe.

    SCH, as the master of passive healing via Regen, could perhaps get an ability that speeds up the rate at which Regen ticks, and/or another that spends the remaining duration of a Regen for an instant heal, and more gear to keep a clear superiority over the other jobs in terms of Regen potency. Perhaps also a spell could be added that makes it so that whenever the target takes damage, they immediately heal for a certain amount, similar to Dread Spikes but able to be cast on others and without draining it from the target.

    RDM, meanwhile, should be the master of mitigation, and so needs an increase in potency for Phalanx and Phalanx II (which should have been made a scroll instead of part of a merit category a long time ago now), maybe an self-centered aoe Phalanx III with low potency. Although I'm certain this will be controversial, I wholeheartedly believe that the stoneskin effect from curing should be removed from afflatus solace and added to composure. I would also love to see a Stoneskin II and Blink II that could target other players, too, especially if Stoneskin II could stack with other stoneskin effects.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    RDM and SCH are better healers than WHM when there's only one target to heal. For example in a VD Ark Angel fight where you use RNG as your main source of damage with only the PLD taking any damage, I'd rather have a good RDM or SCH than a WHM. Sure WHM gets cureskin and Cure V/VI but those are superfluous because ideally the PLD should never get rocked hard enough to warrant such a powerful heal. I've main healed on SCH and RDM on VD AA fights with RNG setups and RDM can Para/Slow/Grav/Dia the NM and still Cure IV instantly for 850+ while casting Haste and -na's and Phalanxing the PLD. SCH can do the same but also Adoloquiem the RNGs, give Regen V which on PLD basically means they dont even need to be cured at all, can virtually afk if they have Ochain even in a VD fight.

    The only content I see WHM clearly outclassing other healers is with melee setups where you need Curagas. For 6man fights, RDM and SCH are VERY viable and I have attested to that personally, and sometimes offer competitive edges vs WHM. Another example is Tenzen fight. Can help sleep Tarus, and since DDs have /NIN they don't need to be cured pretty much ever until he does Skillchains.
    One issue with everything you listed. You're comparing Whm to Rdm or Sch in situations where you don't need the healing prowess that Whm offers. I mean, if we're going that far, there's been a number of times that I've healed my groups Pld as Geo/Rdm or Whm (if -nas are needed and Brd is lazy or a pug) in AAs. Pld Brd Geo 3x Rng, fun stuff.

    At the end of the day, when you need a job that can heal a group for content where healing is required, you're looking for a Whm. The specific healing tools that Sch or Rdm brings pales in comparison to what Whm has available. Now, as you said, if those healing tools aren't needed, then Sch, Rdm, or any other /Rdm or /Whm mage is generally plenty capable of filling in the gap, and occupying their own niche, whether that's nukes, buffs, debuffs, DD, Smn shenanigans, etc.
    (0)

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    RDM and SCH are better healers than WHM when there's only one target to heal.
    Actually, even in the cases you listed, the only thing a RDM would do better than a WHM is Gravity, which counts for...nothing really. For all intents and purposes, WHM can enfeeble just as well as RDM, and WHM can cure for so little MP with Orison Pantaloons +2, Light Arts, and Conserve MP that giving them Refresh II would be redundant. Sure a SCH can give Firestorm and Adloquium to the RNGs, but Boost-STR is a much bigger boost in general (Adloquium = 1 ws/5 minutes). You also have Arise, Cureskin, Devotion, Benediction, Sacrosanctity, and Cure V and Cure VI when crap hits the fan. How does a RDM deal with massive AoE when something goes wrong? Spam Cure IV and Cure III on 6 different people? Use Cure IV with your two whole stratagems (Accession) on the DD that are running everywhere and trying to Shadowbind the target? No matter how you look at it, WHM has better tools than SCH and RDM, and that's not right. And just a quick FYI, WHM with the right gear can now make Regen IV equal to Regen V in everything but duration.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    The only content I see WHM clearly outclassing other healers is with melee setups where you need Curagas.
    You mean like....everything except some AA fights and Marjami Delve? That's good enough I guess. RDM can heal one target and debuff things with Gravity and SCH can Accession > Regen V in NNI so they're completely balanced! Nothing to look at here, nope.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophannus View Post
    For 6man fights, RDM and SCH are VERY viable and I have attested to that personally, and sometimes offer competitive edges vs WHM. Another example is Tenzen fight. Can help sleep Tarus, and since DDs have /NIN they don't need to be cured pretty much ever until he does Skillchains.
    I'm not sure which 6-man fights you're referring to, but I really don't see how this is possible. If you have a BRD for Tenzen, then he should be doing the sleeping. When Tenzen does his super move, a RDM cannot compete with Benediction. In Skirmish, you'd have to specially tailor your group so that you have ranged DDs who don't get hit constantly with debuffs and AoE. I've healed many Ra'ka runs as SCH and after a while I just geared WHM and it became 10x easier. There is simply too much AoE, and you will permanently be out of stratagems from Accession + Erase or Cure IV, not to mention out of MP because you don't get the Orison Pantaloons bonus.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Sasaraixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    276
    Character
    Sasaraixx
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by AppropriateName5786 View Post
    And just a quick FYI, WHM with the right gear can now make Regen IV equal to Regen V in everything but duration.
    I thought this was not the case. Isn't the +Regen on WHM gear a +%?

    I would like the idea of slightly improving RDM and SCH healing capabilities. As it stands healing falls into two categories. Either you have to have a WHM or pretty much any Mage is capable of doing the healing.

    I like the idea someone posted about improving RDM's ability to mitigate damage. That along with improving its enfeebling spells would make it an attractive healer in some fights.

    Really making SCH a master of healing over time and giving it some abilities to convert those regens into burst healing or giving it a few more options for aoe healing would be a nice change. If they ever fix enmity and the animus spells, that could also be a nice boost for SCH.

    I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to improve the banish line of spells if they rebalance the healing jobs. Allowing WHM to excel in light damage wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing and it would be nice for PLD too perhaps. They could make the effect against undead more pronounced too.
    (2)

  7. #17
    Player Redryno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    41
    That moment you realize time spent complaining about white mage could have been used to level white mage.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player sweetidealism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    86
    Character
    Lumei
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaraixx View Post
    I would like the idea of slightly improving RDM and SCH healing capabilities. As it stands healing falls into two categories. Either you have to have a WHM or pretty much any Mage is capable of doing the healing.

    I like the idea someone posted about improving RDM's ability to mitigate damage. That along with improving its enfeebling spells would make it an attractive healer in some fights.

    Really making SCH a master of healing over time and giving it some abilities to convert those regens into burst healing or giving it a few more options for aoe healing would be a nice change. If they ever fix enmity and the animus spells, that could also be a nice boost for SCH.

    I also think it wouldn't be a bad idea to improve the banish line of spells if they rebalance the healing jobs. Allowing WHM to excel in light damage wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing and it would be nice for PLD too perhaps. They could make the effect against undead more pronounced too.
    Yay, acknowledgement! I'm glad to hear that at least one person likes my idea.

    Improving RDM's enfeebles and SCH's enmity spells would both certainly be welcome changes too. I'm also all for improving divine magic to buff WHM and PLD, but I don't think they really need it.
    (1)

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