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  1. #1
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    1,098

    WHM Regen > SCH Regen...?

    So, a while back we were told SCH was being changed into the 'over time' job so to say, a job where doing things over a period of time would be a focus and the main aspect of the job. When this happened Helix was changed to be more dependant on Dark Arts, Regen was changed to be amazing with Light Arts, Tabula Rasa gained access to two new spells which both heavily focused on 'over time' aspects, and it was accepted as this job's role.

    Now, all that being said, WHM has once again stepped on SCH's toes...



    SCH has Regen V, it starts at 40, with Light Arts it goes up to 64.




    These increase it to 79 together.

    The duration is a full 108 seconds before Perpetuance and can be extended to something like 270 seconds(4 and a half minutes) with Perpetuance.

    SCH finishes at 79 Regen, 4 and a half minutes Duration.



    -------------------------



    WHM has Regen IV, it starts at 30, with Merits it goes up to 35.





    These increase it to 79 together.

    The duration is a full 60 seconds.




    These increase it to 96 seconds.



    -------------------------



    In the end, SCH has at best 79 Regen & a 270 Second duration. WHM has at best 79 Regen & a 98 Second duration. While the duration is much lower for a WHM, the potency is tied... WHM has Cure Skin, it has insanely cheap Cures, it has AoE barspells, boost spells, Cure spells, and so on, the job is strong enough. There is no reason I can think of that WHM should be now tying or beating SCH in Regen, yet unless the WHM Hands get a minor upgrade and the SCH Head a major one from the Empyrean upgrades SCH will barely be ahead.

    Up till this point, Regen has been the primary reason to bring a SCH as a healer rather than a WHM. Right now, this gear is blurring the lines between their Regen and at the same time making SCH fall out of it's only true place. Sure SCH has Regen from Embrava but that's nothing to live by since it's an effect only gained around 5 minutes of any given hour. At the same time the duration factor can be easily overlooked in the end when it comes to normal spells due to the fact the duration falls into place with the Accession Recast from /SCH, which makes this very easy to maintain at almost all times.
    (4)

  2. #2
    Player Sasaraixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    276
    Character
    Sasaraixx
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    I was actually thinking about this the other day. I saw how much gear my WHM has to enhance Regen and I wondered if they matched SCH. It's a bit sad to see that the potency is tied.

    To be fair, I guess we would have to add in SCH's job point enhancement. (Assuming anyone will grind those out.)

    At the end of the day I don't think it's a huge deal given how much SCH's duration dwarfs WHM. It does seem silly that WHM is able to match the potency with a lower tier spell given that this is supposed to be SCH's niche. Hopefully the reforged AF3 hat will have a large boost to potency and more duration+ gear.
    (4)

  3. #3
    Player Herby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    76
    Character
    Herby
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    the Piety Briault is actually a % increase, so no SCH stays King of Regen
    (4)

  4. #4
    Player Trumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Trumpy
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    I barely use regen anymore as it wears off before it seems to have done anything on my whm. I seemed to remember regen lasting longer back in the day, or maybe the lower tiers do?
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player Eric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    374
    Character
    Aerolite
    World
    Siren
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    I hardly ever see WHMs cast regen anymore, and whenever they do, they're always trying to overwrite my Regen V with their Regen IV....

    Either way, I think SCH should've gotten more Regen enhancing gear as WHM gets more and more.
    (5)

  6. #6
    Player Trumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Trumpy
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Sch might if they ever reforge empy armor
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Firstly, I'm fairly sure "Regen+X" gear is percent based, as Herby says, so WHM regen is not nearly that potent.

    I think it's really important to point out that the regen spell line is in desperate need of revitalisation for all jobs except SCH at the moment. With the changes to the cure formula and enmity, in conjunction with ubiquitous two-hit-KO moves, all of regen's former benefits - low enmity, low cost and slow healing for non-tanking party members - have been effectively cancelled out for jobs without the light arts bonuses. These new gear bonuses to regen - while welcome - are simply a scaling measure made to compensate for the trainwreck that is the item level system.

    Regen potency and duration need to be significantly increased for all jobs that can cast it, before gear. It should be changed to scale with enhancing magic skill. Preferably it should also be adjusted so that HP restoration ticks don't happen when they're not needed; this would go a long way to fixing efficiency problems. Once regen's efficiency starts to rise significantly above that of cure - including consideration of "wasted" ticks, if the aforementioned adjustment isn't made - then things will start balancing out and people can start complaining about regen.

    I understand SCH's professed mastery of regen alongside other over time effects, but frankly I think this should be the last thing to consider when planning regen changes. These spells are almost useless for the other three jobs that can use them - and of all jobs, SCH should not be a barrier to the fixing of an entire line of spells, let alone a job to complain about other jobs muscling in on their territory.
    (6)

  8. #8
    Player Calatilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    271
    Character
    Calatilla
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    If SE really want regen to be a SCH thing they need to give WHM a different merit option other than regen potency. Saying that no WHM really uses regen for the same reason a SCH does. Tied with Embrava a regen V would almost eliminate the need for cures unless a DD took a really big hit. WHM has never been at this point as far as regens have been concerned.
    (0)

  9. #9
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    371
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Regen spells are far from useless to me. I use them very often, especially on WHM/SCH for AoE Regen IV with all the current regen gear except the club + merits as a method of damage mitigation. If anything, I'd agree the MP cost is a tad high on the higher tiers for what it does. I agree with their desire of keeping SCH as the king of healing over time. WHM has a ton of things over SCH already between stoneskin healing, potent barspells, boost spells which are way higher than SCH storm with merits, status curing speed/stona, and divine caress to block -na spell enfeebles entirely.

    If anything new on WHM, I'd like to see them get back to WHM's efficiency of spells. All of their ga spells have always been highly efficient. I'd like to finally see Hastega and Regenra tiers instead.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    245
    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    The thing is, before the cure formula changes and gear additions, Regen was already a White Mage's solution to efficient single-target healing. It is lunacy to revoke that functionality just so SCH can profess some mastery over a certain field of spellcasting.

    SCH struggled to find a niche when it was introduced simply because it didn't bring anything new to the table, practically speaking. This was a problem with the job's concept and design. I have no problem with SCH having something it is good at, but purloining a field of expertise at the expense of other jobs isn't acceptable. SCH's self-professed status as a master in all things over-time is damaging for other jobs because their tools are being overlooked as a consequence.
    (0)

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