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  1. #1
    Player Mikkel's Avatar
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    Mar 2014
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    Mikkel
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99

    Dev Request- Divine Seal adjustment

    I feel like divine seal is a fairly weak effect on a very long timer. It doesnt keep up with the current pace of the game. What I'd like to see happen is have its recast dramatically reduced and then have its effect adjusted to compensate for the change. Something like-

    1 minute recast
    Cure potency based off the lvl of WHM- (WHMLVL +1)/2

    So as a sub job you would get a 25% potency boost and as a 99 WHM it would be +50%. This also would make WHM's more comfortable subbing other things than SCH with them being able to take advantage of divine veil more often.

    WHM is really only good at healing, it would be nice to have some of our tools refined.
    (5)

  2. #2
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
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    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Hey, SE believes we WHMs use DS for actual curing past 61.... as opposed to the actual use of it: -ga your -nas until you make a yagrush.

    There's really no need to restructure the potency... cause at 99, that's not what the JA is used for.
    (1)

  3. #3
    Player Mikkel's Avatar
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    Mikkel
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    Quetzalcoatl
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    SMN Lv 99
    SE usually feels like they need to take something in exchange for an adjustment like that... and it'd be a bit too powerful for /whm at full potency. I guess they could just cut the potency in half for /whm. This change would make those divine seal Job Points actually worth something though.
    (1)

  4. #4
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    I definitely agree that lowering the timer is a good idea. A one minute timer would not only help with the ailment removal aspect but might actually make Divine Seal worth using for cure potency when AoE status removal isn't a priority. I don't like that it's just ignored.

    Ultimately, with our cure potency being quite high as it is, I don't think a one minute double potency cure would actually have a dramatic impact on our healing capabilities in terms of raw HP healed. However, I can maybe see a one-minute Divine Seal being nice as a semi-consistent MP conservation tool - once per minute, your Cure III is essentially a free Cure IV. We could also use it for tactically doubling our cure stoneskin potency... Yes, this increasingly sounds like a lot of fun!

    If subjob access to Divine Seal is likely to be a problem then we could just tag the reduced recast on as an effect of Divine Veil - then it's just not subable.
    (0)

  5. #5
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
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    Character
    Eliosha
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    Odin
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    SMN Lv 99
    But JP is like merits where it only affects your main job....
    Which is why the DS JP category is so silly/stupid/insulting: it'd be good for /WHM... Since that's the only place DS is used for actual curing...
    But it's a main-job-only effect category...
    So...
    It's just a waste of grind.

    (You know the category is bad when the benediction augment is the better of the two...)
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player Mikkel's Avatar
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    Character
    Mikkel
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
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    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    Ultimately, with our cure potency being quite high as it is, I don't think a one minute double potency cure would actually have a dramatic impact on our healing capabilities in terms of raw HP healed. However, I can maybe see a one-minute Divine Seal being nice as a semi-consistent MP conservation tool - once per minute, your Cure III is essentially a free Cure IV. We could also use it for tactically doubling our cure stoneskin potency... Yes, this increasingly sounds like a lot of fun!
    This is one of the things i had in mind when i thought of this change. WHM (outside of subjob choice and gear) does not have access to any native forms of conserving or recovering mp outside of their 10min divine seal JA- No refresh spell/sublimation/conserve mp jt/auto refresh jt/aspir/convert etc... WHM gets clear mind, and that it... and i believe its the only mage that doesnt have access to a 2mp/tick refresh head also. So the reduced timer on Divine seal would act as WHM's 'conserve mp' ability.
    (0)
    Last edited by Mikkel; 03-24-2014 at 05:15 AM.

  7. #7
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
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    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikkel View Post
    So the reduced timer on Divine seal would act as WHM's 'conserve mp' ability.
    Not to be that person... but we don't really need that.
    I mean.... if you have empy+2 pants.... you have no MP issues EVER. (except with the most suicidal DDs in your party)

    Not to mention how that +2mp/tic bodies (of which there are a plenty)... serpentes set... Bolelabunga now... there's SO much refresh for WHM currently... that we don't need a auto-refresh head piece. (heck the only job that has a desperate need of that is RUN... but giving a refresh piece in lieu of a PDT/DT piece is what is currently gimping RUN... akin to the WHM days before the empyrean pants.)

    So while it's true that we don't have a mp-restore (for ourselves anyways) in JT or JAs...
    We have a buttton of auto-refresh gear.
    Heck... Moonshade Earring might as well read "WHM: refresh +1"... Ain't no WHMs on mobs.

    And even more silly/stupid... the Benediction JP augment might even wind up being a 1hr convert....

    I think we could use other augmentations that are more.... pressing.
    But to be fair... WHM should be pretty low on the table for tweaking... aside from.... bar-statuses being a waste of MP... there's not much growth for WHM.
    Or if there is, I'm not seeing either it or the relevance of it.

    At least in regards to how the job works today.
    If you're talking about say... lol!melee or whatever... then there's a bunch of tweaking room. (Afflatus Misery has SO much room to be made better, for example.)

    But I think Divine Seal, in terms of potency is fine...
    Recast would be nice if it could be brought down to as low as 1min... but I don't see that happening. But it WOULD be nice... but, again, it's a "more of a good thing" type deal... instead of a fix or a real gain from some other ability.

    Cause remember, unless we're changing the hard coding for the JA itself... which is a rare thing that is almost never done...
    Any augments made via Merits or Job Points... will only apply to WHM as a main job.
    (1)

  8. #8
    Player Jerbob's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Jeral
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    At the risk of hijacking Mikkel's thread (please, tell me to shut up if I'm stepping on toes), I don't think this is a request based on a desperate need or fix for the job. Divine Seal is something of a relic of past ages of FFXI where a ten minute timer was reasonable. Today, it's as if Perfect Counter was on a ten minute timer - it doesn't make a lot of sense, and it ends up going unused (or underused). Divine Seal on a one minute timer wouldn't just be useful, it'd be fun to use - simply because you wouldn't always be leaving it available "just in case".

    I would contest that our (definitely significant) access to auto-refresh equipment doesn't negate the value of MP conservation tools. At least half of the auto-refresh gear we have access to is stuff that I am not be comfortable using except when semi-idle between casts - and with the best intentions and reactions in the world, if a white mage is doing something that needs a lot of MP recovery then they're not going to have time to swap in and out of auto-refresh gear between every single cast - only when practical. Of course, auto-refresh macros are fantastic and extremely useful, but they are not a panacea.
    (2)

  9. #9
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
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    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
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    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerbob View Post
    I would contest that our (definitely significant) access to auto-refresh equipment doesn't negate the value of MP conservation tools. At least half of the auto-refresh gear we have access to is stuff that I am not be comfortable using except when semi-idle between casts - and with the best intentions and reactions in the world, if a white mage is doing something that needs a lot of MP recovery then they're not going to have time to swap in and out of auto-refresh gear between every single cast - only when practical. Of course, auto-refresh macros are fantastic and extremely useful, but they are not a panacea.
    I 100% disagree.
    With the stupid amounts of cure potency available... A WHM can more than stand losing their roundel earring for a moonshade.
    And if you're not in your empyrean +2 pants... You're being a bad WHM.
    But then... So many SMNs gimp themselves due to iLvblindness... I can't really blame WHMs for being above such actions either.
    WHM doesn't need iLv gear.
    Sure, things like the RF1 hat and Tamaxchi are MUST HAVES...
    But for slots like... Everything else.... A WHM is often better off with noniLv stuff.

    Serpentes set gives you refresh and 5% cure potency. Sure this limits you into a cure potency body... But:
    Heka's Kalarisis is pretty much the only VW body that is still good today. Why? Because nothing else is giving you +15% cure potency (1/3ish cap) and -15% cure cast time.
    PLUS paring it with good macros will give you 3mp/tic refresh... Which is why I stand by that Heka's is still the best WHM body.
    But others forgo the refresh of Serpentes for more cure potency. And they choose to use the empyrean brialt +2 for the SS buff.
    Personally, I find Heka's to perform better. Sure you're casting cures slightly more often (as if even with the buff the SS doesn't get removed in 1 hit... 2hits at best.) but the 3mp idle and constant 1mp refresh makes you make up for that.

    Basically: WHM is like SMN when it comes to gear choices: you don't gear for yourself.
    A SMN gears for their Avatar, forgoing self buffs if they're good. (SO many gimp SMNs running around in Hagondes because "it caps perp"... As if perp is all that matters!)
    A WHM gears for the survival of everyone else... At the cost of iLv stat vomit.
    The job of the WHM isn't to have massive eva and Meva...
    It's not to have +100 STR...
    It's to keep everyone alive.
    That's it.
    If your gear is hampering you keeping everyone alive... You're not being the best WHM you can be.



    But in regards to any changes to Divine Seal... They will not change the base JA...
    ESPECIALLY not now that they believe it's used for cures.
    If they do ANY tweaks... It will be through Job Points...
    Which means we must ignore any benefit that /WHM might gain from such adjustment... Because Job Point augments are main job only.
    (0)
    Last edited by FaeQueenCory; 03-23-2014 at 10:07 PM.

  10. #10
    Player Mikkel's Avatar
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    Mikkel
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    I 100% disagree.
    With the stupid amounts of cure potency available... A WHM can more than stand losing their roundel earring for a moonshade.
    And if you're not in your empyrean +2 pants... You're being a bad WHM.
    But then... So many SMNs gimp themselves due to iLvblindness... I can't really blame WHMs for being above such actions either.
    WHM doesn't need iLv gear.
    Sure, things like the RF1 hat and Tamaxchi are MUST HAVES...
    But for slots like... Everything else.... A WHM is often better off with noniLv stuff.

    Serpentes set gives you refresh and 5% cure potency. Sure this limits you into a cure potency body... But:
    Heka's Kalarisis is pretty much the only VW body that is still good today. Why? Because nothing else is giving you +15% cure potency (1/3ish cap) and -15% cure cast time.
    PLUS paring it with good macros will give you 3mp/tic refresh... Which is why I stand by that Heka's is still the best WHM body.
    But others forgo the refresh of Serpentes for more cure potency. And they choose to use the empyrean brialt +2 for the SS buff.
    Personally, I find Heka's to perform better. Sure you're casting cures slightly more often (as if even with the buff the SS doesn't get removed in 1 hit... 2hits at best.) but the 3mp idle and constant 1mp refresh makes you make up for that.

    Basically: WHM is like SMN when it comes to gear choices: you don't gear for yourself.
    A SMN gears for their Avatar, forgoing self buffs if they're good. (SO many gimp SMNs running around in Hagondes because "it caps perp"... As if perp is all that matters!)
    A WHM gears for the survival of everyone else... At the cost of iLv stat vomit.
    The job of the WHM isn't to have massive eva and Meva...
    It's not to have +100 STR...
    It's to keep everyone alive.
    That's it.
    If your gear is hampering you keeping everyone alive... You're not being the best WHM you can be.



    But in regards to any changes to Divine Seal... They will not change the base JA...
    ESPECIALLY not now that they believe it's used for cures.
    If they do ANY tweaks... It will be through Job Points...
    Which means we must ignore any benefit that /WHM might gain from such adjustment... Because Job Point augments are main job only.
    I had to read through your post several times before i understood the problem with what you're saying... you don't know that you can swap your gear. You should have (situationally) 8mp/tick in your Idle set AND close to capped PDT. A dead WHM is a useless WHM. If you're not curing in your AF3 body YOU are doing it wrong. That was one of SE's best gifts to WHM, it allows us to basically 'break' the potency cap with extra cureskin.

    I'm not going to bother getting into the SMN discussion...

    ALL of that is irrelevant to what is being asked though. Divine seal generally goes unused because of its long recast... people sit on it JUST INCASE they need to AoE an erase or -na spell. Lowering the recast would not only help with WHM's ability to remove staus effects, it would make using it for the extra cure potency a consideration. You wont be thinking 'oh, i better not use divine seal i MIGHT need AoE a spell in the next 10 minutes.' Which would mean our JPs in divine seal would actually become somewhat useful.

    Talking about its use as a 'conserve MP' tool is just an additional boon.. its not the reason for asking for the change. This adjustment would make being a WHM a little easier and a lot more FUN (this is a game afterall) and its not game-breaking in any way.

    In conclusion, asking for an adjustment doesnt mean that we NEED it, or that we're playing our job incorrectly. . . thank you for your input, but please stop trolling the thread.

    Edit: ALSO, who said anything about JPs having an affect on Divine seal's use as a sub job? We all know how JPs work... The only thing i mentioned was i thought the potency should be reduced as a sub because double pot cures on a 1 min timer would be pretty OP for /WHM.
    (2)
    Last edited by Mikkel; 03-24-2014 at 06:07 AM.

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