Alliance based content

[AppropriateName5786]

Yet FFXI was a successful MMO for a very long time with huge lockouts for gimps.

FFXI is about as inconsequential and obscure as MMOs get nowadays. These forums (and ffxiah.com) are a great indication of just how dead this game is, as you can find threads days/weeks old on the front page, whereas you would be hard-pressed to find a thread you read an hour ago on the WoW/Diablo III forums, for instance, because forums topics move fast when you have a large and lively playerbase. Even at its peak, FFXI didn't revolutionize MMOs like WoW did and it's numbers cannot even begin to matter. This game has been SE's best money-maker not because it's amazing or popular (by MMO standards), but because it has been running for 11+ years and has a subscription model.

Edit disclaimer: I love the game and will play it until I stop having fun, but someone needed to point these fact out. I have nothing against FFXI or I wouldn't be here

[Demonjustin]

The numbers say otherwise, and the fact that the game is still running.

Just because the game is still running does not mean it's a success.

[Zhronne]

So, you're saying there should be content in this game that people just can't do

Yes and no. Getting to the point of "some people can't do" is a bit too much for these days, but there has to be a difference somewhere.
What I find to be the best compromise is for "tiers".
As the level cap/ilevel raise, new content tiers are released. Once the new one is out (efficiently doable only by organized groups and people with some dedication to the game, not necessarily only freaks who play 24/7 of course) the old one becomes easier thanks to: 1) temporary zone buffs, 2) new gear
That way everybody gets to try content, but casual player will complete it later.
This is how it works in most other MMOs, FFXIV included. It would need to be adapted in several ways to work in FFXI, but it's something they could and should definitely do.

It sounds "elitist", but there has to be a difference somewhere, for the sake of EVERYBODY, not just the elitist.
It gives hardcore player something to work for to sedate their thirst for glory and power.
It gives other players something to look forward to, as far as it may seems, a far goal that will give them a sense of progression.
If everybody looks the same, plays the same, does the same... it all becomes boring and you slowly stop being interested in the game in a small time, eventually dropping it.



Back in-topic.
I'm fine with how SE is allowing scalable content. I would have enabled it a few weeks/months after the normal 18-men version, but in the end I'm fine with it.
What I'm not fine with is the balancement of drops.
Currently a 6men Delve group gets the same Plasm and MORE rewards than a 18-men alliance, of the same quality, with what is overall an easier to organize and easier to complete content.
This is not fair and as far as I can think, FFXI is the only place where this happens, especially to this extent.
They need to give 18-men some further motivation, some tweak, some perk.
It would be hard to add exclusive drops, but at least they could make so that just like difficulty scales, so does the amount of Plasm you get and the amount of item slots from megaboss.

The current situation is just completely insane and unbalanced.
It could be fine if lowmanning were so much harder than 18men (I remember we used to 7men Tojil long time ago, without HPscaling etc), but since it's the other way around it's really unfair.
Why should people even bother to do something that's harder to do, harder to organize and give you LESS stuff?

[Firebert_Lakshmi]

After reading the posts, I would like to chime in with comments based on my own experiences in this game. Old FFXI was very much a game where elitists C blocked others from progressing unless you knew the right people. You wanted black belt? Good luck going up against cheaters. And do you think these cheaters let someone else lot on the black belt items if their LS didn't need that? Nope, they extorted players. I refused to play that game so I was with only a brown belt until the new system.

Other example : You were a thief in 2004 and you want your AF in Castle Ostroza (sp?) Too damn bad! You have to compete with people's greed who wanted the valuable Astral Rings. You had very little hope until this was changed.

[Draylo]

I don't see how that has anything to do with this thread?

[Afania]

These forums (and ffxiah.com) are a great indication of just how dead this game is, as you can find threads days/weeks old on the front page, whereas you would be hard-pressed to find a thread you read an hour ago on the WoW/Diablo III forums, for instance, because forums topics move fast when you have a large and lively playerbase. Even at its peak, FFXI didn't revolutionize MMOs like WoW did and it's numbers cannot even begin to matter. This game has been SE's best money-maker not because it's amazing or popular (by MMO standards), but because it has been running for 11+ years and has a subscription model.

Edit disclaimer: I love the game and will play it until I stop having fun, but someone needed to point these fact out. I have nothing against FFXI or I wouldn't be here

Not another "WOW is the best" thread.

Using WoW/D3 as indicator to show that FFXI is dead because of it's bad game design, some logic. You completely ignored the fact that D3 is much newer than FFXI and no other title can match WoW.

If you want to use D3 to bash FFXI, at least find another 2002 sub based MMO to compare with FFXI. Wait, you probably can't find them because most of them has less players than FFXI, or went F2P, or dead years ago.

D3 isn't even MMORPG mind you. Why are you comparing D3 with MMORPG.

FFXI had 500k sub for years, majority of the MMO nowadays will kill for 500k sub for that many years. Warhammer had 800k at launch, dropped below 500 after a few months, now it's dead. SWTOR had 1.7M at launch, only 500k left after 1 year and now it's F2P. Rift was below 500k soon after launch too. ARR had 600k sub 1 month after launch, I highly doubt it still has 500k now(SE won't release the number), knowing the game has low longevity by design.

You're correct, FFXI is nothing compare with WoW, however, so does every other title. I also have to point out the 11M sub legend made by WoW was not entirely legit. 70% of sub came from China/Asia, in China there are hourly payment options. Any active users active for past 30 days are considered active player by Blizzard. Not counting China/Asia market(a market that majority of western MMO, including FFXI didn't try to reach), WoW only had 3~4M sub. Still more than every other titles, but not as untouchable.

The fact is, by MMO standard, FFXI was a success. It just was. If you don't agree with me, tell me exactly which title besides WoW had more than 500k sub for YEARS that only has NA/EU/JP market? Without China/Korea market to boost sub number, 500k sub isn't easy.

Unless your standard is "Only WoW can be a success" or "only WoW clones can be a success", then I have nothing to say.

Just because the game is still running does not mean it's a success.

Maybe I should fix it for all FFXI haters:

Only the game I like can be a success, if I don't like the game, it's not a success.

Define "success" if you want to make such ridiculous claim. Plenty of games, including many AAA titles, and countless B- titles, couldn't live for more than 3~5 years. Now you're claiming a 12 year old MMORPG with more than 2 servers "is not a success".

If FFXI isn't a success, then no other game beside WoW is. That's not a very good way to define "success" IMO

[MarkovChain]

Stop qqing draylo and subscribe for mules. Ever since abyssea it's the best way to play the game. The alliance events were dead after or with einherjar. Noone like alliance or at least 99% of players hate it. That's why SE has taken special caution not to give great drops to alliance based content for years. The only exception to this was delve v1 and it caused half the player base to quit over their now gimp REM. Einherjar, legion, voidwatch all those were events came with subpar gear and the best rewarding events have always been 6 man : salvage v1,v2, nyzulv2, sky, limbus etc. It's funny that you are only noticing this now. Regarding delve v2, don't worry, all the gear is subpar. So the point of 18 man vs 6 man doesn't really make sense. I think the only worthwhile thing to do in the game atm is building an RME and/or an afterglow and it will be the case until SE ups ilevel cap on gear. Everything they will be adding until then is likely going to be gimp, unless they finally do ilevel salvage or nyzul gear that is.

If you consider 100% being the gear quality that best players have, SE currently seems to be working for the players standing around 50-75%.

[saevel]

Yes and no. Getting to the point of "some people can't do" is a bit too much for these days, but there has to be a difference somewhere.
What I find to be the best compromise is for "tiers".
As the level cap/ilevel raise, new content tiers are released. Once the new one is out (efficiently doable only by organized groups and people with some dedication to the game, not necessarily only freaks who play 24/7 of course) the old one becomes easier thanks to: 1) temporary zone buffs, 2) new gear
That way everybody gets to try content, but casual player will complete it later.
This is how it works in most other MMOs, FFXIV included. It would need to be adapted in several ways to work in FFXI, but it's something they could and should definitely do.

It sounds "elitist", but there has to be a difference somewhere, for the sake of EVERYBODY, not just the elitist.
It gives hardcore player something to work for to sedate their thirst for glory and power.
It gives other players something to look forward to, as far as it may seems, a far goal that will give them a sense of progression.
If everybody looks the same, plays the same, does the same... it all becomes boring and you slowly stop being interested in the game in a small time, eventually dropping it.

It's perfectly fine to design content to eventually be available to lesser skilled / resourced players. The major difference between highly skilled / resourced players and lessor skilled / resources players shouldn't be rewards but the time it takes to get them. By the time the lesser skilled players start completing the content new content should be available for the hard core guys to chase after. FFXI's problem is that the developers rarely go back and edit old content until long after it's no longer relevant while releasing content in large bursts. The iLevel system is a perfect example, they should of never started off with iLevel119 delve, but instead 106, then 109, then 113, then 115, then 117/119. Space each out a few months apart. Now if something isn't 119 it's pretty much irrelevant which forces SE to create nothing but 119 content that itself requires already having 119 level gear and thus we have our catch-22. This is no different then the days of 75 cap, or 99 cap, where everything was side grades upon side grades.

[Demonjustin]

Maybe I should fix it for all FFXI haters

I'm a FFXI hater? Cool.

Only the game I like can be a success, if I don't like the game, it's not a success.

Not at all, I've never played WoW, Diablo 3, or most MMOs at all, in fact the list of MMOs I have played is restricted to this, Phantasy Star Universe, and The Old Republic, I can think of no other MMO I have played in all honesty. That being said I do think WoW is a success if there ever was one, Diablo 3 seems fairly successful, The Old Republic originally flopped and tried to recover but I wouldn't say it was a success despite the fact I do actually enjoy the game when playing it with friends.

Define "success" if you want to make such ridiculous claim. Plenty of games, including many AAA titles, and countless B- titles, couldn't live for more than 3~5 years. Now you're claiming a 12 year old MMORPG with more than 2 servers "is not a success".

I guess you didn't read, or at least understand, what I said. Just like I said before...

Just because the game is still running does not mean it's a success.

What this means is that the time it stays running doesn't determine it's success. In retaliation to such a claim how did you respond? By saying a bunch of other games only live for 3~5 years while this has lived for 12, yay, you provided the exact numbers I just said we're irrelevant and ended up proving nothing by it. Yes other games have had shorter lifespans, they've also had larger amounts of money to keep things running or to create new content I'm sure, and the amount of money being made by people playing may not have been high enough to warrant the game being kept alive. There are also games that are shut down because of a new one coming out, Phantasy Star Universe would be an example of that. This game can likely be kept up for a fraction of some of the newer games you're pointing out died so quickly. One reason I can think of off the top of my head is this game never upgrades to the new look of gaming, it has stayed as poorly graphiced as it was at the start and I think that's a blessing because it means the game has less work or time to be put in by the Devs for updates and such I would think. In either case, age is not a proof of success, it's as though you're saying an 80 year old who's highlight moment in life was working as a manager in a burger joint was a success, I would argue they didn't fail, but they aren't really a success.

If FFXI isn't a success, then no other game beside WoW is. That's not a very good way to define "success" IMO

I would say a successful MMO is one that has a successful release without needing to rebuild the game, is well advertised to draw in more players, and can keep up at least a moderate amount of players playing the game whilst at the same time adding new content on a regular basis.

-FFXI from what I know did the first of these things but only due to the FF name as many people have told me the original version was terrible, and I have to assume by that the FF namesake is what kept this game from crashing, but I could be wrong as I never played and have no personal experience.

-So far as the second thing, advertisements, goes that is a complete and utter failure on this game's part as I have still to this day never seen a single ad on TV nor have I see any online besides on FFXI related sites, the only one I have seen even on them that comes to mind is one for SoA, which I saw, once... This game's real advertisements are the players playing it, we're the ads, if we don't draw in new people this game dies because hardly anyone is ever going to find this game without us.

-The third is to keep up a moderate amount of players while releasing new content, the first half is a failure as the population of this game declines even more to the lowest point I have ever seen(@719 people on Phoenix, yay...) and SE still does nothing effective to change that such as ads, enticements for old players to return, or anything of the sort. You would think with their want for FFXIV to be a different kind of game that they would advertise one another in their games so people who don't like one can try the other, it would be a great marketing strategy but nope, not happening.

-So far as pushing out content though they are getting that right finally, if the content were better done in some cases they could really make it great but for now I give this part a success.

So out of basically 4 criteria they failed 3 so far as I know, but if I abstain from even answering the first due to lack of personal experience you still get a 1/3, with a failure to advertise and maintain a playerbase. Their only success in my opinion is something fairly new and that's a consistent stream of content flowing into the game for us to do, before it was an update once every 3 months or so and I wouldn't actually call that much a success when a large amount of players were standing around with their thumbs misplaced and nothing to do. Now we finally have moderate content updates monthly, which is a success, but the failed in other ways that make the game itself fail. So, 12 years of being alive, a ton of mistakes, a few successes, but the game overall is not one I could actually consider a true success, it's alive, but not a success.

[Olor]

In my opinion a MMO is a "success" if you could imagine being able to convince even one of your friends to play it for any amount of time.

I have tried. Even former players who have thick nostalgia goggles are fed up with it. Those are folks that have already cleared a lot of the roadblocks (some of which still cockblock me after years of casual play). Those are returning players. People who wouldn't have to scale the cliff this game has instead of a learning curve.

Crevox did a great job outlining the huge barriers for a brand new player. No one wants to subscribe to an MMO to play by themselves for months. The only really party based content is at endgame. Therefore, in order to get people into playing, endgame needs to be accessible. It isn't. I am starting to wonder if it can be fixed. They boxed themselves in with ilevel - as the playerbase gets higher and higher ilevel - they will abandon lower ilevel content (look at WKR - already people hardly do it) - making it hard/impossible for newer or more casual players to catch up. It feels like if you aren't doing content in the first two weeks it comes out, you are pretty much boned, and if you hadn't already been doing the newest content prior to it, you won't be invited to the new stuff.

I feel like difficulty currently swings between extremely difficult (shutting people out completely) or so easy it is eye bleedingly boring (hallo rala/cirdas/yorcia skirmish). I can't believe it but I am missing voidwatch because it felt a heck of a lot more tactical and there were roles less perfectly geared players could play.

I'd like more things like that, where you could win some, and lose some. Yes, as time went on (and weakening items were added) it got easier - but people all had a role to play in hitting procs and making the run a success... now it is either SUPER STRESSFUL AND YOU WILL PROBABLY FAIL, NOOB or it is OMG I AM SO BORED WANDERING AROUND HALLWAYS LOOKING FOR AN EXTREMELY BORING NM