Alliance based content

[Draylo]

Why stop at 6 then? If these people can't muster the strength to create linkshells or parties within their play time, why don't we just drop all content down to 1~2 man so we can all duo it with our mules and trust npcs? How would you feel about that? Where exactly do we draw the line here lol. It should be obvious that a battle designed around 18 players is more difficult than a battle designed for 6 players. SE is allowed more freedom in monster strength when they know 18 players are going up against it instead of 6. The above poster refused to play a support job because he was a DD only meathead, why should they cater to people like that? He was probably one of those fail players that complained 24/7.

[AyinDygra]

Wow, wish my Dynamis Linkshell, Salvage static, Limbus static, and assault groups were still playing and posting, to back me up here... but I don't feel like defending myself against that... I'll just let my comment stand on wanting more Campaign, Besieged, Wildskeeper Reives, that allow anyone to join and be rewarded for their effort, without needing to join a massive linkshell and be forced to play jobs they don't like, when they want to do anything fun. (this game wouldn't be fun on a job I hate...)

That is all.

[Draylo]

Against what? When you refuse to come any type of support to any group you are a burden. People in groups should be flexible and rotate jobs to help everyone out. You think people like playing support jobs 24/7? They want to go DD sometimes too.

[AyinDygra]

Find people who like to play support jobs, so it's FUN for them when they play! They must exist...

... hey, even I like playing Dancer to be a healer/support... but nobody wants that. I'd play an item-based Chemist type healer, if they existed like in my Job proposal (ideal expansion thread)
... but I wouldn't force anyone to play a job they don't like. Bard is annoying to me... Corsair... can't stand random for drops, why rely on it for my job too? ... mages... more of a personal choice to never play a mage in any game ever... (I loved that Vagrant Story had a "never used magic" accomplishment!, beat FFXII without magic, beat FFI, FF5, with all monks (sometimes Dragoons, I like dragoons too, but not in FFXI, FFX, I put all my characters through the physical sphere paths, so Lulu's dolls were crazy strong!)

This game isn't a job... "take one for the team"... "be miserable"... not things I'd say. Anyway... enough of that. It's an MMO... find all those crazy people who like their jobs!

Defend myself from what? Burden, meathead, failplayer, complainer...

In my groups in FFXI, I've been an asset, not a burden. Did Dynamis twice a week for years (staying awake!) long after I got everything I wanted from it... Did tons of abyssea together, finished tons of empy+2 gear for the whole team. I joined a couple established static groups later in the content's lifespan, so I was playing catch-up on gear, so it may have felt like they were doing more for me than I had for them at some points... (never finished my Usukane... they finished all their gear early, and just gave up on the event when better gear was released, and didn't want to do more to get my last 2 pieces to finish 2 pieces) but I can't really force anyone to play content they don't want to, now can I? Not fun, ok. I'm probably going to go solo those pieces to finish them up soon, just for the completionist in me.

So... anyway...

[Mirage]

I think in the events where you can choose between 6 or 18 people (or anything in between), players should be able to get the same items no matter which version they choose, but that item drop rates should be higher in the 18 man version, simply because there's more people competing for the same items. An item with a 20% drop rate when fighting the alliance version shouldn't have more than around 5-6% drop rate in a single party version. Of course, if you choose to attempt on the version that is intended for 18 people with less than 18 people, you shouldn't be penalized for that, but instead get the same high drop rate split among fewer people.

[Mefuki]

Post #15

Agreed. Monster statistics, reward quantity and drop rate should simply be on a sliding scale with how many people you choose to bring to that content.

[Selindrile]

I do believe she was referencing how trust has killed grouping up for basically everything <99...
Which, in my opinion, is a shame... Because I've met most of my friends list via PUG xp pts... Cause that's when people are sociable.
Now... Everyone would rather compete and be dbags for whatever page mobs rather than loose those Trust supports....
Which could EASILY be rectified by making Trusts be able to be party fillers like Fellows.

Oh I agree, and I wish group exp rewards would change significantly to encourage grouping more however, if you think that makes FFXI more a "solo-oriented MMO" than a laundry list of others, including 14, you're delusional.

[Camiie]

So it was announced that the new Delve will be 6-18 man and an adjustment of HP accordingly, as noted here:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...e-new-Delve-II

My question is, what incentive is there right now to have a fully functioning linkshell when there is nothing to do with them that requires it? Why would I want to have 18 people for the new Delve when it is POSSIBLE to beat it (I know it will be, or why would they have included that adjustment to do it with 6 people) when I can do it with 6 people? Why do I drag 18 people into this content when I can clear it faster with 6 people with secondary characters and not have to split the loot at all? The loot is the same regardless of players entering, what sense does this make!? If this is going to be just like the adjustment to the original delve, like was said in that post, the rewards system wont be like Divine Might. There is 0 incentive to bring an alliance.

With the implementation of item levels they had the perfect opportunity to differentiate between "Normal" and Heroic" difficulty modes or "Dungeons" (party) and "Raids" (Alliance). Yeah I'm using WoW terminology, because I can't bear to agree with you without also getting your goat, but I digress. They could have had 6-man delve drop gear in the 115-117 range and have 18-man drop all 118-120. That's probably not as big a gap as you might hope for, but it would differentiate the content without totally alienating small parties. The gear from the 6-man version would have to be of a caliber that would allow the participants to step up to the alliance version. You have to have some sort of progression between the two. I guess all that would have been too much work though.

I've seen this once before and it was with Abyssea. This caused a splinter in all linkshells and pretty much destroyed them. So then after Adoulin came out we were forced to once again gather people up to do the original Delve because it was balanced around 18 people. Then you had everyone quit for XIV and come crawling back because its boring and the people who still had a linkshell are penalized for it.

In my case I was in a shell where the leadership decided they would just 3-man everything for themselves and left the rest of us to our own devices with a lot of excuses. The ties of friendship and trust that were forged through the previous 18-man only content proved to be extremely weak, so I guess you do have to force people to tolerate each other. God forbid that people would be social and helpful in an MMO without being forced to do so. “The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.” But it is what it is I suppose.

[FaeQueenCory]

Oh I agree, and I wish group exp rewards would change significantly to encourage grouping more however, if you think that makes FFXI more a "solo-oriented MMO" than a laundry list of others, including 14, you're delusional.

?_?
I don't understand your last statement...
How does favoring single player gameplay (at least from 1-99) not make something "solo-oriented"?
Cause.... That's kinda the definition... Of those words...

And Camiie, you basically described the functions of the WKRs.

[Camiie]

WKRs are free-for-all world bosses. Technically it's group content, but there's no coordination or teamwork except by happenstance. There are many people in the same place with the same purpose, but all acting individually. That's not the same sort of content Delve is. Delve involves planning and communication. Comparing WKR to Delve is like comparing rush hour pedestrians to a marching band in a parade.