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  1. #11
    Player Trumpy's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Character
    Trumpy
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    Shiva
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    DNC Lv 99
    I completely meant to say when they are fighting that worms cannot use burrow in my first post. I posted faster than me brain could think!
    (0)

  2. #12
    Player Blah's Avatar
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    Aha cool so at least aby monsters are a part of it, thought they'd push them off until later like beastmen.
    (0)
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

  3. #13
    Community Rep Camate's Avatar
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    Greetings,

    Becoming a worm would sure be neat, but implementing these monsters for monstrosity would be difficult due to the fact that they have very special movement properties, just as you all have taken note of. The development team will be adding a lot of different monster families moving forward, however, and we’ll be sure to share updates on what’s to come.
    (3)
    Devin "Camate" Casadey - Community Team

  4. #14
    Player Mefuki's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
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    Character
    Mefuki
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    As you read from the first page of this discussion, there is almost no monster species, TP move or ability that couldn't be added by tweaking effects to closely simulate what monsters do. To recap on a possible solution to worm movement:

    *Create a job ability or TP move called "Burrow". This ability would likely have a recast to prevent abuse.

    *This would make the user do their burrowing animation but would actually apply a form of Gestation that would only allow for specific actions. This effect would likely have a duration to prevent abuse.

    *During the effects of "Burrow", movement speed would be set to standard speed, allowing movement like any other monster. No newly animated walk cycles necessary because you'd be invisible to everyone and therefore odd looking walk cycles wouldn't matter from an onlookers point of view. Simply allowing Worms to slide around is sufficient.

    *When the effects of "Burrow" wear off or are removed, the monster's unburrowing animation would activate. This system would look just like the real thing and serve almost the same function but without the concerns about mapping objects below each map.

    *Much like the Fighting Stance abilities, this same "Burrow" ability could be applied to other monsters such as Onyx Antlions or even Phuabo to match their burrowing ability.


    **Bonus: There can even be combat elements to this ability. There can be an allowance made for the use of very specified TP moves or spells while under its effects. For example, Worms could be allowed to use the Tremors TP move while under the effects of Burrow and a damage bonus could be applied to it to encourage players to use that skill. Additionally, certain TP moves, like the TP move Seismic Tail, could be given a damage bonus and an additional effect of removing the Burrow effect when hitting an opponent that is under the effects of Burrow.



    This is a possible solution to the Worm problem. He probably already knows this but, Camate, please remind Iwagami that there are work around solutions to all of these monster mechanics. From AoE Charm TP moves to Colibri mimicking traits, there's a way to give us similar effects while remaining within technical limitations.
    (3)
    Last edited by Mefuki; 04-02-2014 at 02:10 PM.

  5. #15
    Player Edyth's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    Character
    Edyth
    World
    Asura
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    SMN Lv 99
    Worms aren't worth the effort.

    Here are several monster families/forms they have skipped that WOULD be worth the effort:
    Yztargs
    Belladonnas (Morta)
    Snapweeds
    Twitherym
    Chapulis
    Craklaws
    Pteraketos (Bismarck)
    Ovim (rams)
    Lucerewe (sheep)
    Tulfaires
    Leafkin
    Kulox (Apian Beasts, I believe)
    Botuli
    Harpeia

    And most of all....
    The Naakual families! Sadly, out of the things on my list, only the Naakual families don't have placeholders in Monstrosity menus according to DAT miners.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Mefuki's Avatar
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    Character
    Mefuki
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Well, this issue with the Worms are sort of a poster boy of a greater problem. Direction specific moves like Tail Lash, Charming moves of any sort, any Max HP Down move, any Curse move, any Death and Doom move, any Severe Damage move like Blink of Peril, any Aura move including directional ones like Grim Glower, NIN SP1, colibri mimicking, etc: a lot of the things that make playing and fighting these monster interesting or relatively complex in the first place are missing. SE seems to be leaving out a fair amount of combat mechanics and I want them to start giving us the monsters we actually fight, not neutered, bare-bones versions of them. That way, when SE DOES release the monsters you mentioned, we're actually getting those monsters.

    As it stands now, even if we were to start getting those monsters, would Yztarg have it's Soulshattering Roar Physical Shield and non-standard melee attacks? Would Belladonna have Full Bloom or Beautiful Death? Would Botuli have Gnash 'n Guttle or Slimy Proposal? Would the Naakual have any non-standard melee attacks or moves like Blistering Roar's Burn Aura, Uproot's Dia Aura, Protolithic Puncture, Tidal Guillotine, Marine Mayhem, etc?

    I want to see those monster too but I want our Monipulators to have all the capabilities that the real things have(or as close an approximation that we can get given technical limitations as possible). Because if the monsters you listed were to be released now, given the current precedent set, they'd likely be basic monsters who's only real difference is higher attribute parameters and such a setup is not really conducive to layered, complex PvP or battle systems in general. I'd hate for battles to come down to Naakual or nothing because Naakual are just better in every way. Every monster needs strengths and weaknesses; monsters they counter and monsters that counter them but that won't happen if SE strips Monipulators of the incomparables that make each monster unique.
    (3)
    Last edited by Mefuki; 04-02-2014 at 11:05 PM.

  7. #17
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Bastok
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    Character
    Tahngarthor
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Greetings,

    Becoming a worm would sure be neat, but implementing these monsters for monstrosity would be difficult due to the fact that they have very special movement properties, just as you all have taken note of. The development team will be adding a lot of different monster families moving forward, however, and we’ll be sure to share updates on what’s to come.
    Just implement it as Stance Change B(eta). You guys already created a special ability to account for Gnole and Wamoura's dual states. Just activate the ability which makes us burrow and able to move.

    Yztargs
    Belladonnas (Morta)
    Snapweeds
    Twitherym
    Chapulis
    Craklaws
    Pteraketos (Bismarck)
    Ovim (rams)
    Lucerewe (sheep)
    Tulfaires
    Leafkin
    Kulox (Apian Beasts, I believe)
    Botuli
    Harpeia
    These are species, not families. e.g., please correct me if I'm wrong but leafkin might be beastmen (aren't they capable of speech?). Some of these could be added later of course. But at the moment, monstrosity doesn't appear to include any expansion exclusive species (possibly due to monstrosity not being audolin expansion content, and again, correct me if i'm wrong on the preceeding statement out of parens)
    (0)
    Last edited by Alhanelem; 04-03-2014 at 12:03 PM.

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alhanelem View Post
    monstrosity doesn't appear to include any expansion exclusive species
    That depends what you mean by that. Bugards for instance are from CoP, anything before that had none, Orobon are from ToAU, nothing before that had them, if you meant only monsters before expansions or without expansions are included then no.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player Alhanelem's Avatar
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    Tahngarthor
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    Shiva
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    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Demonjustin View Post
    That depends what you mean by that. Bugards for instance are from CoP, anything before that had none, Orobon are from ToAU, nothing before that had them, if you meant only monsters before expansions or without expansions are included then no.
    let me qualify that, I meant Audolin-exlusive. Many contents use monsters that existed in prior expansions to their introduction. Remember that Monstrosity isn't Audolin content, it doesn't require the expansion, and it was announced (vaguely as 'play as a monster") prior to audolin's official announcement. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of the monsters that were listed above are Audolin exclusive, right?
    (0)

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  10. #20
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    From this list...

    Yztargs
    Belladonnas (Morta)
    Snapweeds
    Twitherym
    Chapulis
    Craklaws
    Pteraketos (Bismarck)
    Ovim (rams)
    Lucerewe (sheep)
    Tulfaires
    Leafkin
    Kulox (Apian Beasts, I believe)
    Botuli
    Harpeia
    Most are, however Yztarg, Apian Beasts, Belladonna, Pteraketos, Harpia, Botuli, and a few others related to them but not actually in the list are all from before Adoulin. In fact, Yztarg and Apian Beasts were first introduced through Meeble Burrows, which was out probably a year or so before Adoulin's release I think, while Belladonna, Pteraketos, Harpia, and Botuli, as well as Gallu, Mantid, and Naraka were all introduced via VW. The Snapweeds, Twitherym, Chapulis, Craklaws, Tulfaires, and Leafkin are all of Adoulin origin though. Matamata are also from Adoulin and aren't mentioned though they are Lizards, which have been released, as well as Heartwings. If you include alternate skins as new monsters, there are the new Orange Sheep & Rams that are listed, the Ovim and Lucerewe, but then there are also the new bunnies which were with Adoulin, the Lapinion, as well as the new Red Behemoth skin, Ruby Raptors, Red Mantid, and possibly more, though that'ss all that comes to mind right now.

    Now, here's where inconsistency comes in and why I somewhat hesitate to include alternate skins in this list. While we lack the Red Behemoth, Ovim, and Lucerewe, we actually have access to Lapinion and Ruby Raptor skins. We also have some Adoulin and Meeble specific skins or entire monsters such as Panopts which originally came from Meeble Burrows just like Yztarg and Apian Beasts, they are now in Adoulin as well, and yet we have this race but not the others.

    All in all though, some of those are VW, others Meebles, and a few Adoulin, but it's spread out, and the fact we have other monsters like Panopt and Lapinion kinda shoots a hole in the 'It's because it's from Adoulin/Expansions' theory because even while VW requires WotG at least and Adoulin requires, well, Adoulin, Meeble Burrows requires nothing, and yet there are a couple mobs in Meebles that we've yet to see in Monstrosity.
    (0)

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