Will the recent Delve changes also apply to the new Delve II?

[FaeQueenCory]

Those have become a rare commodity and generally have a princess like mentality since they can get instantly accepted into nearly any group on a given server.

Well... it's cause they can.

Being a BRD with 4 songs can really inflate your ego...
In the exact opposite way that being a SMN can deflate your ego...

They are a rare commodity because there's nothing else like them in the game, and have been a hard staple in endgame events since the beginning of endgame events. (though apparently SE wants to make GEO more the level of BRD? Ain't ever gonna happen. GEO's limit will always be 2 buff OR enfeebles. The only way GEO can gain more effects would be more self-only... cause the luopan abilities screw up the coding if there's more than one.)

[Draylo]

Why do you insist you need a 4 song bard? Should I low man a Tojil with a 2 (3 with new 1hr) or 3 song bard to shut you up?

[Demonjustin]

Why do you insist you need a 4 song bard? Should I low man a Tojil with a 2 (3 with new 1hr) or 3 song bard to shut you up?

What you do is meaningless unless you put yourself in the same exact position that a group without any Delve wins would have, until you can see it from exactly that viewpoint understand the issues with it nothing you say will make any difference. I didn't even reply to your last post because in it you made it blatantly clear you don't think of it from the other side at all, why? Simple, you simply think people can lowman the NMs in 15~20 minutes and get their Plasm instantly. The thing is that most groups don't kill that quickly with 119 gear from what I have ever seen in shout groups, you're asking people without 119 gear to go out and do that very thing though and yet expect them apparently to be faster than your average 119 group. I'm sure you would follow up with the fact they can still kill them all but it just takes longer, but the point however is that you are thinking about it from where you are not others.

[Draylo]

Dumbing down the content (which is already extremely easy) is not the answer. Improving your character to beat the content is the answer.

[Demonjustin]

Dumbing down the content (which is already extremely easy) is not the answer. Improving your character to beat the content is the answer.

Person A: Tojil {Do you need it?} 17/18 DD {Can I have it?} {/tell} {please}

Person B: I have MNK.

Person A: Oats?

Person B: Eminent, but I have decent gear & am a good player! I can't get Oats without Tojil. : /

Person A: Sorry, Oats only, maybe when you're better geared.

Person B: But how do I get Oats if I can't do Tojil without Oats, which is the only way to obtain Oats? -_-;

Person A:...

The above is the typical talk most of my non-Oat friends have ever described to me when trying to join runs when people actually did 18 man runs. The idiocy of the paradoxical nature of 'improving your character to beat the content' is in itself the very core of the issue. If the only answer to getting to do 119 content is to improve your character to 119 levels, and at the same time the only way to do that is to do 119 content which people won't invite you to without have 119 gear, you are looking at a paradox which can't easily be solved by your average player. Sure some people can step out of the bounds of this by asking friends, I have many friends myself who I have assisted in such a way, but not everyone will have this same situation and not everyone will be able to get it done.



In either case I feel like we're sidestepping the issue here. The main issue is the fact that non-119 people can't 6-man Delve, at the same time Delve 6-man has killed off all want to do 18-man runs for Delve which leaves non-119 people without any ability to complete the content. If you need 119 gear to do 119 content, a skilled group, and so on, no one will do it with 6 people. As it was said earlier, the good people of the group will find themselves those 6 man runs already going & winning while everyone else will get screwed, this isn't just for BRDs with extra songs, it's for any good player in a group trying to improve enough to complete the content.

Dumbing down the content (which is already extremely easy) is not the answer.

Oh and by the way, while the rest of my post more or less adresses the idea of improving your character, I wanted to also point out that this comment right here only serves to prove the point I made with my previous post.

What you do is meaningless unless you put yourself in the same exact position that a group without any Delve wins would have, until you can see it from exactly that viewpoint understand the issues with it nothing you say will make any difference.

the point however is that you are thinking about it from where you are not others.

[Camiie]

Not to launch a personal attack, but most people in Draylo's shoes can't even relate to new or returning players anymore. They don't know what it is to start from scratch or from 2 or 3 years behind the curve. They've forgotten all the steps they had to take to get where they are today. They think all a new player has to do is step into Abyssea and everything else just magically falls into place.

[Draylo]

So would posting a video of me doing Tojil with my friends and being in gear like 117 eminent gear and a two song bard change your opinions? It really isn't hard, you are just bad players if you can't beat it and you need to improve yourselves.

[Demonjustin]

So would posting a video of me doing Tojil with my friends and being in gear like 117 eminent gear and a two song bard change your opinions?

A 6-man run with only a 2 Song BRD, 117 Eminent gear with the exception of potential RF+1 gear, and yes, you might get some amount of ground to stand on with your argument and have some affect on my opinion on the subject. I won't ask you to refrain from gear swaps, but the fact you will be swapping gear admittedly does put some amount of trust in your honesty since I won't likely see you swapping and can't tell if you're using different gear either, though admittedly not many 119 pieces outside of AF/RF are so massively important other than weapons that I expect it to make a large difference.

you are just bad players if you can't beat it and you need to improve yourselves.

Another failure to use proper english unless meaningfully directing it at those whom of which you are talking to, in this case presumably me. If you are talking to me, I have already stated I have beaten these NMs multiple times, thus, your comment is inaccurate.

[saevel]

Nahh he's gone way out in left field. I do Tojil with a core group of guys and we smash it utterly for plasm farming. We've tried to "get people the KI" and it's an utter nightmare. You can't trust them on any important job, not even the healer (a healer who hasn't healed through these fights isn't going to know WTF to do). Our best strategy so far is to have the same core six people, then only bring in 1~2 more and have them come as BLM or something and pretty much ignore their existence. The NM's have 10% more HP but that's not any real impairment to our ability to smash it. We finish and bring in another set of two people, rinse and repeat. It's the only way to get consistent wins because most people have zero idea how to do that run, and the shark and bee are even more complicated.

Anyone who things that six people in level 117 gear can waltz in and kill Tojil is bullsh!ting and should be treated the same as if their trying to sell you some nice oceanfront property in Oklahoma. Hell six people in 119 weapons without the supporting gear won't be able to do it. Even six people with all the gear in the world won't do it if they are average players (the definition of your majority btw).

[Draylo]

Um did you forget that Tojil was out before anyone fully geared in Adoulin stuff? If I find the time I'll have a friend post a video of our run. If "average players" can't beat this content then they shouldn't be allowed to get the drops. You should be content with lower tier gear, not force SE to dumb the content down so you idiots can complete it. I honestly don't care for this discussion anymore either, SE will do as it sees fit and I'm glad they haven't totally caved in to terribad players.