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  1. #21
    Player Martel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    249
    Character
    Martel
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    Clearly...
    You either have never done any 119 content...
    Or have never done it on PLD...
    Or have been blind when you do it...

    Because PLDs cast cures.
    Regardless of how good your WHM is.
    Your PLD will drop cures on themselves... Because that helps maintain enmity and makes life easier.
    PLDs cast cures when:
    -You don't have a WHM
    -Your WHM is slow, busy, or other wise unable to cast.
    -You don't trust your WHM to do it fast enough.
    -Your HP is so damn low not even a cure 6 is gonna cap you.
    -You've got nothing better to do.

    Cure enmity is pathetic. The only reason to cure for enmity is cause you have nothing else decent to cast. It's been getting worse as the level cap rose already. Then they nerfed the heck outta it during the major enmity adjustments. But subbing RDM just kills it even more. Do you know what Tranquil Heart is? Look it up. You clearly need to do more research on a great many levels.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    And you're just plain wrong. There is no benefit to /sam... Because thanks to iLvs, the STR bonus from hasso is basically worthless. (Cause it's so small it's negligible.)
    And when you have to go through work just to 0 your subjob's effect on your main job... THAT's the sign of a bad subjob.
    Where exactly did I say to use /SAM. Or mention /SAM at all? You're showing a lack of reading comprehension here.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    FC: let's see... You argue that +0%FC > -95% cast time... Cause THAT makes sense... A job that lives off of it's enhancing magic... SS namely... Surely will NOT benefit from 2s cast times...
    MAB: yeah... Increasing your Lunge and Swipe damage... Which increases your enmity... Which lets you hold hate better... Yup... That's totally not helpful at all... 9_9
    Haste: sure, it's not JA haste... So it doesn't give you crazy delay reduction... But then...
    The fast cast cap is 80%. With inspiration, RUN can easily cap. Thus, the /RDM fast cast trait isn't gonna do anything.

    My argument states the presence of a WHM. In this case there is ZERO need to haste yourself. I also acknowledged the utility of /RDM as a solo sub.

    MAB is nice. We all like better swipe/lunge. But 25 MAB is entirely insufficient to make /RDM worth using for tanking purposes.
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    And I realize that this is a VERY hard concept for most ppl to grasp about RUN...

    RUN is NOT a DD.
    Do you see me mentioning RUN's DPS ANYWHERE in that post? Where did I call it a DD? Did you actually read my post. Or just skim it then spew your preconceptions based on what others have said about RUN before all over the forum?
    (6)

  2. #22
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    I am usually a Pld in AA fights, and I can attest that cure enmity is miserable, I have a reasonable HP+ (mostly accessories as to not lose too much defense) set, so that I can cure about 400HP even when I'm capped before I start casting, that used to be a popular trick in FFXI tanking back in the day.

    I rarely end up curing except in the exact situations that Martel listed, I'm usually much better off with one of the other things I can do at the moment.

    And /Sam's affect on either tanking or DD is not negligible for the record, Seigan is certainly inferior to /Nin for straight evasion tanking, but the Job Ability Haste component of Hasso is important when your DPS matters more than your tanking usually but still leaves you a defensive option to switch back to, and of course it's a big bonus if the Store TP happens to shave a hit off your X-Hit. (Primarily some old content like duoing WoE or Salvage come to mind)
    (2)
    Last edited by Selindrile; 03-15-2014 at 09:32 AM.

  3. #23
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Gannon View Post
    I am pretty sure the casting time and recast penalties from Hasso and Seigan kill SAM's usefulness as a tanking sub for RUN.
    The constant 60% fast cast from vallaince/vallation kinda balances that
    (2)

  4. #24
    Player Peepiopi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    72
    Character
    Aoikaminari
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    RUN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Rune fencer has been created as a tank that is especially strong against magical attacks, but when it comes to physical damage, the team envisioned that rune fencers would adopt ninja or samurai as their support jobs to evade or parry the attacks that come their way.
    This is kind of scary. For the devs to say something like this really indicates that they don't really have a full grasp on this job they created, or they don't really care what the problems are.

    As long as there is a cast/recast delay on Seigan, then /SAM does more harm to a Rune Fencer tank than good. We need to get buffs up as fast as possible while tanking, not cancel out Inspiration. Besides, not only does blink tanking with /sam or /nin not fit the archetype for Rune Fencers, it's not even close to being the real problem with Rune Fencer physical defense. The answer is PARRY. It always has been. The best parry rate we can get is 20% while the block rate cap is 65%. Not to mention that Paladins have a certain unnamed overpowered shield that allows them to reach 100% block rates. If you're trying to figure out why Rune Fencers are not at the same level as Paladin, that's why.

    Also, you've got the wrong idea about our enmity control. We have to spam Rune Enhancements for magic defense against bosses.. especially when trying to keep up with multi-element ones. And since you only put the MP recovery on Tenebrae, we have to use Tenebrae 3 times for MP recovery, since (because our parry rate sucks) we don't have the mp recovery to keep up with our dependency on rebuffs.

    Raising the Parry rate cap for Rune Fencers and allowing us to have 100% uptime on a 50%+ parry rate is what it's going to take before Rune Fencer is considered a legit tank in this game. Not only does it fix our problems with physical attacks, It also would improve our cumulative enmity, thanks to Tactical Parry. Our native vol. enmity is fine, but we really need better parry more than anything. Honestly, if you guys haven't figured that out yet, then I think I made a mistake in choosing Rune Fencer for my main.
    (1)
    Last edited by Peepiopi; 03-15-2014 at 05:10 PM.

  5. #25
    Player Damane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    Clearly...
    You either have never done any 119 content...
    Or have never done it on PLD...
    Or have been blind when you do it...

    Because PLDs cast cures.
    Regardless of how good your WHM is.
    Your PLD will drop cures on themselves... Because that helps maintain enmity and makes life easier.

    And you're just plain wrong. There is no benefit to /sam... Because thanks to iLvs, the STR bonus from hasso is basically worthless. (Cause it's so small it's negligible.)
    And when you have to go through work just to 0 your subjob's effect on your main job... THAT's the sign of a bad subjob.

    Cure4: saves your life
    FC: let's see... You argue that +0%FC > -95% cast time... Cause THAT makes sense... A job that lives off of it's enhancing magic... SS namely... Surely will NOT benefit from 2s cast times...
    MAB: yeah... Increasing your Lunge and Swipe damage... Which increases your enmity... Which lets you hold hate better... Yup... That's totally not helpful at all... 9_9
    Haste: sure, it's not JA haste... So it doesn't give you crazy delay reduction... But then...

    And I realize that this is a VERY hard concept for most ppl to grasp about RUN...

    RUN is NOT a DD.
    I think you have no idea how enmity works. Healing enmity is very weak sauce, a PLD or RUN relying on that will never be able to hold any hate at all, especially with RDM sub and Tranquil heart...
    (2)

  6. #26
    Player Nakts's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    98
    Character
    Nakts
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Peepiopi View Post
    This is kind of scary. For the devs to say something like this really indicates that they don't really have a full grasp on this job they created, or they don't really care what the problems are.
    I see you're a PUP, so you should know that this is indeed the case.
    (0)

  7. #27
    Player Martel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    249
    Character
    Martel
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    DRG Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Peepiopi View Post
    The answer is PARRY. It always has been. The best parry rate we can get is 20% while the block rate cap is 65%. Not to mention that Paladins have a certain unnamed overpowered shield that allows them to reach 100% block rates. If you're trying to figure out why Rune Fencers are not at the same level as Paladin, that's why.
    Firstly, there is no block rate cap. Ochain's functionality is in no way cap breaking or unique. It just hits high levels of block rate much more easily. As high as 93% block rate has been seen on a normal size 3 shield(without reprisal/palisade.) This being killedar shield when it had +200 skill on the test server. There's no block cap. there's only, how much skill you have. Blockrates of 65%~ can still be observed on killedar or beatific given low enough level mobs.

    Also, I've seen 28%~ parry rates even on PLD(low level mobs, mind you, but it does disprove a 20% cap). RUN can def hit higher rates than that.

    Checking some old parry tests.... with 647 parry skilll, vs level 109 mobs, I had a 29.57% parry rate.

    Now comparing that to Shields... Let's say, Aegis, vs the same 109 mobs.

    Block% 39.08
    DMG%- -81.8
    Total PDT -31.9

    Since a parry is effectively 100% dmg-, a 29.57% parry rate is literally 29.57% overall reduction. So all of 2% behind the physical defenses of an Aegis. Now, of course, Ochain, killedar, or beatific is gonna blow that outta the water, but it is interesting that Parry can compete with Aegis' physical defenses.

    I do agree, though, that RUN needs a physical defenses buff. And enhancing parry would be a good way to do it. More battuta up time would help a lot.

    On the same 109 mobs, with 647 skill and battuta up, I got a 64.8% parry rate. (4/5 merits)

    Ochain has -66% dmg on block. So, at a 100% block rate, you get -66% overalll damage reduction. Thus a 64% parry rate is comparable with Ochain's over all dmg reduction. 0.0 Need more battuta duration here. <,<
    (6)

  8. #28
    Player Zirael's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    259
    Character
    Zirael
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    Greetings,

    The development team is aware that rune fencer is in need of some tuning and they are planning further adjustments.

    Rune fencer has been created as a tank that is especially strong against magical attacks, but when it comes to physical damage, the team envisioned that rune fencers would adopt ninja or samurai as their support jobs to evade or parry the attacks that come their way.

    We plan on adding more equipment moving forward to ramp up their defenses, but the development team would also like to improve the issue where it’s difficult to generate enmity. The current popular trend to use Rune Enchantment over and over to generate enmity is making it difficult to attack and offer support, and we feel this is not the right direction.

    Due to this, we are looking into adjustments for the future to eliminate the enmity from Rune Enchantment and increase enmity generating methods in a variety of ways.

    As we are still in the planning phases for this, I’m unable to give any specifics for what adjustments will be made, but please know that we are planning to make adjustments for rune fencer’s enmity in the future.
    RUN currently gets most enmity by spamming runes to barely make do staying near enmity cap
    that's totally unacceptable
    let's remove enmity+ from runes then and add a Provoke-like job ability on a 30-180s recast timer instead

    I see no logic in that.
    (2)
    Quote Originally Posted by SpankWustler View Post
    The Developer smiled and replied, "During the worst times, I was riding on your back and whipping you with a stick and laughing."
    Quote Originally Posted by Camate View Post
    [...]-Dipper Yuly, Faithful Falcorr
    ※These pets will have a base of Treasure Hunter I, but by using equipment that has “Pet: Treasure Hunter +” the effect will become stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Okipuit View Post
    [...] There was no promise to create gear that would counter the reduction of treasure hunter on beastmaster pets Dipper Yuly and Faithful Falcorr.

  9. #29
    Player Mirage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,980
    They should just not touch rune enmity and add another 30-60s provoke-like ability anyway.
    (1)

  10. #30
    Player Trumpy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    449
    Character
    Trumpy
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    I never understood why paladin, made for tanking, lacked a provoke or an ability just like it. War could tank a bit, but why was this given to them and not the actual tank class, forcing players to pretty much sub war. Ninja was not originally made for tanking, so i can understand it not having a provoke like feature. Run was made for tanking but lacks a provoke as well, granted i have only gotten run to 30 so i dunno how much enmity runes and such give. Also mystified me as to why they were given ninja like gear with no defenses (PDT and such) besides parry.
    (1)

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