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  1. #11
    Player Sabishii's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    Location
    NY
    Posts
    19
    Character
    Sabishii
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    People would just want these jobs as full jobs. I think this game has enough balance issues with main jobs before adding new ones that are sub only. Balance PUP, BLU, SMN, BLM, RUN, THF, other melee that isn't MNK, jobs that people don't want in end game content. I like BLU and SAM, those are the two jobs I have geared the most, but in Ark Angels, people don't want those jobs, they want a group composition of PLD, RNG x2, COR, WHM, BRD or something similar like that. BLM can't get an invite because AA resist magic so much (like most mobs), and most melee can't get invites because you have to sub /NIN to even have a chance of not getting killed, OR you just have a RNG who can stay out of guaranteed death AoE range. We don't need more jobs when the ones we have now are so imbalanced. I'd say we'd actually have TOO many jobs to keep balanced by the dev team, since most of them are not being used in end game stuff.
    (5)

  2. #12
    Player Twille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    290
    Character
    Twille
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    No thanks.
    (1)

  3. #13
    Player Shinron-PUP's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Bastok
    Posts
    103
    Character
    Shinron
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    PUP Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabishii View Post
    People would just want these jobs as full jobs. I think this game has enough balance issues with main jobs before adding new ones that are sub only. Balance PUP, BLU, SMN, BLM, RUN, THF, other melee that isn't MNK, jobs that people don't want in end game content. I like BLU and SAM, those are the two jobs I have geared the most, but in Ark Angels, people don't want those jobs, they want a group composition of PLD, RNG x2, COR, WHM, BRD or something similar like that. BLM can't get an invite because AA resist magic so much (like most mobs), and most melee can't get invites because you have to sub /NIN to even have a chance of not getting killed, OR you just have a RNG who can stay out of guaranteed death AoE range. We don't need more jobs when the ones we have now are so imbalanced. I'd say we'd actually have TOO many jobs to keep balanced by the dev team, since most of them are not being used in end game stuff.
    I agree with what you're saying. We definitely need more focus on fixing jobs that already exist because they're definitely a bit unbalanced. However, I think the original poster's idea behind creating support job only classes was to in fact create more balance to jobs by giving them access to job abilities and traits that better augmented their jobs specific fighting style.

    Honestly I would love to get a pet job support job that enabled more ways for me to cure and enhance my pet. Honestly as a mythic PUP99, I don't benefit much from /WAR and /NIN especially in cases where I'm not fighting up close and that's about all of our options for a support job. I would love some pet job support jobs or just allow us to /DRG /BST or /SMN and get pet job ability benefits. Even a support job that worked similar to /NIN but gave more PDT and Defense so that squishy jobs like PUP could survive better in heavy damage situations would be amazing. /PLD obviously wouldn't be able to do that very efficiently.
    (2)

  4. #14
    Player Jinzha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Jinzha
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Sabishii View Post
    People would just want these jobs as full jobs. I think this game has enough balance issues with main jobs before adding new ones that are sub only. Balance PUP, BLU, SMN, BLM, RUN, THF, other melee that isn't MNK, jobs that people don't want in end game content. I like BLU and SAM, those are the two jobs I have geared the most, but in Ark Angels, people don't want those jobs, they want a group composition of PLD, RNG x2, COR, WHM, BRD or something similar like that. BLM can't get an invite because AA resist magic so much (like most mobs), and most melee can't get invites because you have to sub /NIN to even have a chance of not getting killed, OR you just have a RNG who can stay out of guaranteed death AoE range. We don't need more jobs when the ones we have now are so imbalanced. I'd say we'd actually have TOO many jobs to keep balanced by the dev team, since most of them are not being used in end game stuff.
    There are multiple ways to skin a rabbit. I do believe jobs needs to be balanced better, but I also believe that directly balancing jobs isn't the only way to fix them. I think adding sub only jobs is one of many ways that Square Enix needs to balance the current job disparities.

    Adding these support jobs would be so simple. And you could literally add support jobs so specific that they could literally be made just to benefit one job. For example if they added Shinobi which is just a pseudo ninja support job, it could add benefits like conserve ninja tools used, grant fast cast, evasion bonus, increased attack speed, and grant access to new Ninjutsu like Utsusemi: San when main class is Ninja.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sabishii View Post
    People would just want these jobs as full jobs.
    Also I think these support jobs wouldn't necessarily be jobs that people would want to be lv 99. The support jobs won't really be something that differs much from the original jobs, but simply just grant job abilities and job traits that specialize in certain fighting styles.

    For example, who is going to want /Herder to be a lv. 99 job when it just gives more pet benefits.

    If they were to add complete unique support jobs like Necromancer that clearly could be extrapolated into a 99 version, I could see that, however. But the support jobs that I'm speaking of are more general and just pseudo versions of preexisting jobs.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jinzha; 02-17-2014 at 11:32 PM.

  5. #15
    Player Jinzha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Jinzha
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Twille View Post
    No thanks.
    I love the input, but can you explain/extrapolate why you feel this way. My support job idea isn't set in stone and I'm not saying "I want it this way or no way". The point of making forum posts is to gain feed back and critiques from others players in order to generate even more ideas so that Square Enix can use those ideas to help make the game better and more how the players want it. If you feel my idea is bad say why and how you think it could be done better.
    (0)

  6. #16
    Player Blah's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
    Posts
    427
    All right, before yay or nay is said a bit more clarification please. Are you saying dump the main job/ support job setup now and just make these 22 support job only jobs or are you saying have it like ninja/war/shinobi? And are you saying that like the Viking support job is only going to work with "tanks" or will I be able to go, say summoner/Viking to try to be a, well a summoner that can tank?
    (0)
    Last edited by Blah; 02-17-2014 at 02:38 PM. Reason: another question
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

  7. #17
    Player Jinzha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Jinzha
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    All right, before yay or nay is said a bit more clarification please. Are you saying dump the main job/ support job setup now and just make these 22 support job only jobs or are you saying have it like ninja/war/shinobi?

    The support job system would stay the same as it has been.
    You would still be able to /SAM or /NIN or /WAR if you wanted to. They would just be adding additional support jobs as more options. The system would still be Main/Support, so it would just be Ninja/Shinobi (or some new support job) instead of Ninja/Warrior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    And are you saying that like the Viking support job is only going to work with "tanks" or will I be able to go, say summoner/Viking to try to be a, well a summoner that can tank?
    This is actually a big point. The support jobs would be accessible to all jobs classes, like any other. If you wanted to go Summoner/Viking then you could. The point is to give all classes access to support jobs that focus on certain fighting styles so that, say you wanted to go Summoner/Viking, you could actually survive more efficiently in high damage situations and also gain hate more efficiently because you would have access to things like flash and provoke (I'm not saying that SMN would be a better tank than a Paladin, but could hold decently if it chose to). Same thing with damage dealer jobs. If a Samurai wanted to go Samurai/Viking, s/he would find themselves a formidable tank job comparable to Paladin (and soon RUN) but not necessarily better. This would allow for others jobs to tank in certain situations rather than simply Paladin being the only path for a tank job.

    Currently there is an extreme bias between what jobs can use what types of support jobs. Mage jobs rarely get to use Melee support jobs because they are not beneficial and vice versa, but what I'm asking for are support jobs that function for all jobs. A mage can benefit from a tank support job or a melee support job as much as they would a mage support job.If you want to be an up close fighting summoner, you'd have a better chance by supporting Berserker or Viking and actually seeing a large difference and your ability to damage deal or survive. It would open up windows to different fighting styles that a job can use.

    However, if you sub one of the 22+ support job exclusive jobs that may correspond to one of the main classes you would have access to even stronger job abilities, spells, job traits but only when you're on that main class. For Example:
    *Ninja and it's corresponding support job Shinobi may grant access to higher spells like Utsusemi: San, More evasion traits +, and some new job abilities.
    * Red Mage and it's corresponding support job Time Mage may grant access to Hasteja, Slowja, Haste II, Bio IV, Paralyze III, etc. Only when main job is Red Mage.
    * Puppetmaster and it's corresponding support job Mechanist may be able to use Activate II (Having 2 automatons), Repair II, Cool Down II, etc.
    *White Mage and it's corresponding support job Medic may have access to spells like Cure VII, Increased cure potency, more insta-cast.

    Using a support job that corresponds to your actual job would have a synergistic effect granting access to spells, job traits, and job abilities that other jobs wouldn't get by using that support job. However, any job would still have access to using those support jobs but wouldn't gain spells like Utsusemi: San from subbing /Shinobi like Ninja would. It would allow us to almost support our own class making us even stronger in our respective techniques. Don't get me wrong however, I don't think the synergistic effect of the support jobs should be completely over powering, there would still be benefits to supporting other support jobs besides your "Job specific-Support job".

    Don't get caught too much on the fact that creating 22+ Support jobs would take many man hours. As I stated before, the jobs once unlocked would be automatically half the level of the Main class and could be gotten through something as simple as buying it from a NPC or getting it through login in campaigns. Creating the classes would be so simple to do, and if done right would create fun options and balance those large gaps in jobs where you can only see Monk, Bard, Corsair, and some other selective few jobs in end game content. It would be possible to see summoners fighting up close, Samurais, Warriors, or Ninjas tanking almost as effectively as Paladin, or Dark Knight's focusing on using nukes primarily as a effective source of damage. All avenues of a job could thus be explored, and, as a result, create more diversity in what type of jobs can be used in group content as well as solo content.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jinzha; 02-17-2014 at 11:26 PM.

  8. #18
    Player Blah's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
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    427
    Well I am not sure I am on board (largely because I still mix and match jobs or try to) and here's why...I would rather be a ninja/warrior/ shinobi. :-) Ok ok other than that I don't know if you saw it but earlier this week there was another thread about transcendent jobs, your idea and their idea sounds very similar, not saying they're the same but one might argue instead of support job only jobs how about simply "transcending" the current jobs? Like "transcending" ninja to shinobi and giving it the abilities you've outlined, "transcending" paladin to Viking and giving it the abilities you've outlined, "transcending" summoner to...ummm whatever an ascended summoner would be called. The downside to both ideas is I believe they wanted to ditch the current setup as well and I would rather just have it be an optional feature that if you try it and don't like it or want to actually have the option of sometimes having main/support or main/ minisupport (I'm calling it minisupport) or transcended job or transcended job/ support if they go with the other idea, you can. Now not to get too off-topic but I kinda always thought (pre99) that it was stupid and quite silly that we never had the option of not having a support job. Some actually did want to challenge themselves (one linkshell buddy a looooooong time ago) but people just kept jumping all over her about it so she quit and I thought it was a real shame. If they do go with either idea I really do hope they also have the option of just going with "one" job too.
    (0)
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

  9. #19
    Player Jinzha's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    45
    Character
    Jinzha
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    Well I am not sure I am on board (largely because I still mix and match jobs or try to) and here's why...I would rather be a ninja/warrior/ shinobi. :-) Ok ok other than that I don't know if you saw it but earlier this week there was another thread about transcendent jobs, your idea and their idea sounds very similar, not saying they're the same but one might argue instead of support job only jobs how about simply "transcending" the current jobs? Like "transcending" ninja to shinobi and giving it the abilities you've outlined, "transcending" paladin to Viking and giving it the abilities you've outlined, "transcending" summoner to...ummm whatever an ascended summoner would be called. The downside to both ideas is I believe they wanted to ditch the current setup as well and I would rather just have it be an optional feature that if you try it and don't like it or want to actually have the option of sometimes having main/support or main/ minisupport (I'm calling it minisupport) or transcended job or transcended job/ support if they go with the other idea, you can. Now not to get too off-topic but I kinda always thought (pre99) that it was stupid and quite silly that we never had the option of not having a support job. Some actually did want to challenge themselves (one linkshell buddy a looooooong time ago) but people just kept jumping all over her about it so she quit and I thought it was a real shame. If they do go with either idea I really do hope they also have the option of just going with "one" job too.
    Yes my idea is actually pretty similar to the "transcendent jobs" concept. And I actually wouldn't mind seeing something along those lines. I think that keeping the current Main/Support job system the same would be a little bit more practical, however, and just create the "Transcendent" effect through synergistic jobs like Ninja/Shinobi, so that we wouldn't have to completely discard the system that we have currently been using forever, but I wouldn't mind "Transcendent Jobs" also.

    I'm not really a big fan, however, of Mini support jobs only because they won't really create the "Big effect" that I want. Sure you'll get like provoke and some other fun stuff if you went NIN/DNC/WAR, but a mini support job isn't going to balance the huge disparities between jobs. I want to see support jobs that help Melees tank similarly to Paladin, or mages that can be formidable damage dealers (up close fighting). I want more variety and options than MNK, COR, BRD, PLD, WHM, and SCH. I'm not saying mini support jobs is a bad idea, though. I think there are a lot of things you could do with the idea, honestly.

    My main point, in a nut shell, is to create support jobs that anybody can use that allows players to fight however they want to on their respective job. No more Paladin is only Tank job, No more White Mage is only healer. Players should be able to log on and play whatever their favorite job is and play it how they want to. Certain jobs may have a slight advantage over others in certain fighting styles, but that large gap in difference would be minimized with the new support jobs.
    (0)
    Last edited by Jinzha; 02-18-2014 at 12:11 AM.

  10. #20
    Player Blah's Avatar
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    Jun 2013
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    427
    Ah no no, I was calling your idea "minisupport"...to kinda shorten things up a bit...instead of "support job only jobs" Oooo but maybe a better name might be static job? Something like that?
    (0)
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

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