Shield Skill

[Demonjustin]

So, RDM was given Beatific Shield, will assuredly be on Beatific Shield +1, has Shield Mastery II as a trait, and retained Shield Skill on our Reforged Artifact Feet Armor. Yet, through all of this, we have retained a terrible F rating in shield, putting it so low that even on level 99 monsters with Beatific Shield our block rate is flat out horrible. Can we please, please have our Shield Skill raised to at very least a C+, if not a B to match our Sword and Dagger skills?

I fear without a higher skill our ability to use a shield is so poor that we literally may as well not even bother to use one at this point, we are dependent on Dual Wield, yet lack the trait, just as we are seemingly meant to use shields and yet have no real skill to use it. At this point, most PLDs have Aegis and Ochain, by giving us this skill increase we are by no means going to become more useful than a PLD, only more capable in lower end content, where right now we can hardly make use of it as we are more than 150 skill behind PLD, and more than 100 behind WAR!

Please improve this skill, raise it to a C+ or B rating so we can at least make use of these great shields on at least basic content!

[Demonjustin]

Come on SE, please let us use shields more effectively, how are we a shield master when we have the lowest possible rank!? Even a WHM blocks better than us, yet you give us Shield Mastery, could anything be more contradictory!?

[dasva]

Interestingly enough whm does get shield def bonus.

I think you underestimate how much block rate would make a difference and how much rdms already have better defensiveness built in than pld. Plus they seem to already be planning on outdating ochain and nq beatific actually blocks better than aegis. Not much testing I've seen on hq but based on the increase in stats it should be around as good as killedar especially on easier on content. Like Should be a good 65% block rate or higher for a pld on 111 mobs

[Martel]

Interestingly enough whm does get shield def bonus.

I think you underestimate how much block rate would make a difference and how much rdms already have better defensiveness built in than pld. Plus they seem to already be planning on outdating ochain and nq beatific actually blocks better than aegis. Not much testing I've seen on hq but based on the increase in stats it should be around as good as killedar especially on easier on content. Like Should be a good 65% block rate or higher for a pld on 111 mobs

If you'll pardon the derail into PLD land...

Nah. Beatific +1 isn't gonna match, much less beat Killedar.

So, level 111 mobs.
Killedar
Block% 47.64
DMG%- -86
Total PDT -40.9

Now, I don't have test data for Beatific +1. But I do have data for the NQ. We can go from there, and work in the increased def and skill. so, based on this I get:

Beatific+1
Block% 65
DMG%- -53
Total PDT -34.4

Now, from here, for Beatific+1 to match Killedar it would need 77% block rate. 12% over it's currently projected rate. That'd take about 56 extra skill.

Back to RDM stuffs.

I think, over the years, SE has made clear what they think of RDM tanking. By nerfing the ever-loving hell outta it.

Now, maybe you don't want to tank. Perhaps you just want greater durability for solo activities, etc. But making RDM more durable opens back up the possibility of RDM tanking.

RDM has to rely on shadows to survive anything high level. Things like VD AAs would just oneshot you, right through SS/PDT/Phalanx(barring scherzo.) And since SE nerfed all of RDMs CE generating debuffs they haven't got much left to pull hate with. Effective tanking becomes very difficult(Then again, effective tanking is pretty difficult for PLD too, unless all the DD are rangers. <,<; )

But... If RDM's physical durability was buffed via a notable increase in shield skill, then surviving without shadows might become possible. This leaves the subjob open letting RDM sub something with decent enmity actions. /DRK, /BLU, /RUN, etc. And perhaps makes RDM tanking a possibility again.

So yeah, I don't think SE is gonna buff RDM's shield skill. Although, even if they did, I dunno that RDM tanking would catch on again. But I just don't see them giving RDM the chance.

Or maybe I'm over thinking this, and SE's not worried about RDM tanks. But even in that case, I doubt they'd bother with this adjustment.

[Protey]

It would be interesting if RDM tanking did make a comeback and I think SE might be open to the idea. The reason being is that they made RUN, which is supposed to be a tank. So they are open to a job class besides PLD being the only viable tank option.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

how are we a shield master when we have the lowest possible rank!?

At least you're not as confused and inconsistent about shields as DRK.

[dasva]

If you'll pardon the derail into PLD land...

Nah. Beatific +1 isn't gonna match, much less beat Killedar.

So, level 111 mobs.
Killedar
Block% 47.64
DMG%- -86
Total PDT -40.9

Now, I don't have test data for Beatific +1. But I do have data for the NQ. We can go from there, and work in the increased def and skill. so, based on this I get:

Beatific+1
Block% 65
DMG%- -53
Total PDT -34.4

Now, from here, for Beatific+1 to match Killedar it would need 77% block rate. 12% over it's currently projected rate. That'd take about 56 extra skill.
Back to RDM stuffs.

I think, over the years, SE has made clear what they think of RDM tanking. By nerfing the ever-loving hell outta it.

Now, maybe you don't want to tank. Perhaps you just want greater durability for solo activities, etc. But making RDM more durable opens back up the possibility of RDM tanking.

RDM has to rely on shadows to survive anything high level. Things like VD AAs would just oneshot you, right through SS/PDT/Phalanx(barring scherzo.) And since SE nerfed all of RDMs CE generating debuffs they haven't got much left to pull hate with. Effective tanking becomes very difficult(Then again, effective tanking is pretty difficult for PLD too, unless all the DD are rangers. <,<; )

But... If RDM's physical durability was buffed via a notable increase in shield skill, then surviving without shadows might become possible. This leaves the subjob open letting RDM sub something with decent enmity actions. /DRK, /BLU, /RUN, etc. And perhaps makes RDM tanking a possibility again.

So yeah, I don't think SE is gonna buff RDM's shield skill. Although, even if they did, I dunno that RDM tanking would catch on again. But I just don't see them giving RDM the chance.

Or maybe I'm over thinking this, and SE's not worried about RDM tanks. But even in that case, I doubt they'd bother with this adjustment.

Hey now I didn't say the shield would be better just that it would be around as good especially on lower content. Though I probably should have added in the hands of an rdm with higher shield skills. It could be argued that the higher block rate offsets the slightly higher average dmg reduction of a killedar at least on rdm given how traditionally it tanks more with trying to get it's buffs back up while getting attacked. I mean -104% interrupt rate tanking was a thing at one point. Heck people actually used sipar for holding mobs at one point before they nerfed it.

I actually kinda do want to tank or go back to solo activities I'm just sure there will be such an outcry again. Not that I care about it but SE probably will to nerf it.

As far as the fear... they definitely were afraid at one point hard to say if they still are. All the emnity nerfs which killed rdm and /rdm tanking for example. But they do change their minds I mean to go back to sipar they were once afraid of really high block rates even if the dmg blocked was hardly anything but then they made ochain <.<

[Demonjustin]

The thing is with the existence of Ochain and Aegis, their commonality, Killedar, the Shield Skill they would still have over us, their much higher DEF, much easier access to PDT, and buffs such as Sentinel, Rampart, Palisade, and Reprisal, PLD would still smash RDM in the end I'm sure.

[dasva]

The thing is with the existence of Ochain and Aegis, their commonality, Killedar, the Shield Skill they would still have over us, their much higher DEF, much easier access to PDT, and buffs such as Sentinel, Rampart, Palisade, and Reprisal, PLD would still smash RDM in the end I'm sure.

That's kinda what I meant by why I don't think they will raise it or at least not much. As is right now yes given good shields survivibility much higher. If they raised up skill to be simliar amounts to the point of acheiving high block rates idk... I mean rdm has always had the issues you listed but at one point could survive comparatively well and now has easier access to def and pdt... and like raising the skill from what it is now to A would be around 35% more block rate increase lol. So if they raised it would probalby start something more modest like maybe C.

Actually I might just try to remake my rdm def/pdt sets looks like it can cap fairly easily now while still using ilvl stuff... let's see Dring, dark ring and twlight will give me -20%, Umuthi Gloves 4, Umbra cape 6 (12 at night), then get augment skirmish gear and flume belt. Would give around 550ish def in gear capped pdt and almost capped haste. Probably something better out their but that looks pretty solid no?

[Demonjustin]

I never asked for A, tbh I think that's to much anyways. B is what we have in Sword, Dagger, and Enhancing Magic, the only skill RDM has above a B rank is Enfeebling. B is 404 which excluding gear is a nice 20 behind a PLD, roughly 5% block rate from what I understand. C+ would be fine too, it's not to much lower and is another common skill we have.

The set sounds right, I would have to go look and fix my sets for melee on FFXIAH to suggest any improvements if there are any to be made but it's fine to me. I won't like that in optimum gear a RDM can get capped PDT somewhat easily, but comparing it to PLD isn't even close. PLD Relic Head, Body, and Legs alone amount to 3 of the highest DEF pieces if not the highest DEF piece in slot in the game on top of a total of 20% PDT between them. I don't mean to say RDM has a hard time getting PDT, but more that PLD has an insanely easy time getting it by compare to any other job, and with the ability to stack on so much PDT and their JAs it really makes PLD hard to beat.

PLD at 75 was competing with RDM but it was a different game back then, at the time Aegis was rare, now every PLD and their mom has one, back then your block rate was your block rate, now days PLD has 2 abilities to raise that rate sky high and one of them can be full timed with proper buffs/gear. I don't mean RDM would be too weak to make use of this, but to out do a PLD would be near impossible at this point unless you're talking about a maxed out RDM vs a half assed PLD, in which case I think the argument against raising the skill to high is a bit unfair.