I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Feary]

this is the sad state of most MMO's on their way out, all that's left is the grumpy, impatient, basement dweller elitist who look down on everyone else with their 1200 day play time, so being new you have to deal with these _____. They are just mad that now all their time and effort is worth a little less now that a kid playing one month can get as far as they did in that 10 years, I'd be mad, but hey its a game, get over it. I mean if you can't be patient and respectful of new comers, your a contributing factor to your games low population, just my cents.

sorry you got treated the way you did in-game and on this forum, people forget where they come from when they can't see it from their pedestal.

thats very presumptuous. we have a different perspective based on experience. It does not mean we are bitter nor that we look down on the newer playerbase. its often 2 self righteous people who dont know how to communicate to each other on the really issues and respect each other opinion. most situation or opinions are best off some bad experience with someone and because somenoe has a similar belief it associated with that situation and emotion. if anything you are the one who seems the grumpy, impatient, a self righteous. ironically.

statements like this " impatient, basement dweller elitist who look down on everyone else with their 1200 day play time" proves that.

any person who plays any game (especially this game not just genre) and regrets their time is ignorant.

we were new the this game at some points and wish for something to be different. i havent forgot that feeling and i make sure to include that in my advise. You can agree with it or not. usually the difference is you are only advocating for you own experience and not looking at the bigger picture.

again

sorry you got treated the way you did in-game and on this forum, people forget where they come from when they can't see it from their pedestal.

[Afania]

this is the sad state of most MMO's on their way out, all that's left is the grumpy, impatient, basement dweller elitist who look down on everyone else with their 1200 day play time, so being new you have to deal with these _____. They are just mad that now all their time and effort is worth a little less now that a kid playing one month can get as far as they did in that 10 years, I'd be mad, but hey its a game, get over it. I mean if you can't be patient and respectful of new comers, your a contributing factor to your games low population, just my cents.

sorry you got treated the way you did in-game and on this forum, people forget where they come from when they can't see it from their pedestal.

I almost want to lol@ your statment. I really don't see ANYONE in this thread "look down on everyone else with their 1200 days playtime". I have around 366 days of playtime, I liked my past 366 days of FFXI experience, so I defended for it because I don't like game direction change. I don't think I've ever use any "you suck, you're lazy" when defending for my opinion either. There are specific aspect in FFXI that I enjoyed, such as long term goal. But I never go "if you don't do long term goal you're lazy/suck" or anything like that, I even encourage ppl not to do long term goal lol.

I explained why I disgree with OP's opinion several times, with reasons.

On the other hand, there are several post that subtly hinted that I'm an "no-lifer elitist" just because I defended for FFXI direction and long term goals.

I think it's more like you(and OP) doesn't like my opinion, so you feel the urge to use such a negative label so your opinion is more legit. That doesn't mean you'd change my opinion though. If you want to convince me why instant gratification is better game direction, tell me why.

[Feary]

Since you're blaming everything on what I said in another topic, so I'll reply.



I don't see much "negativity" by telling you to quit. It's a suggestion, you don't enjoy this game, so this game is simply not for you. I want new players that enjoys FFXI to play this game, but I don't want new players that doesn't like this game to play this game.


If you're going to view FFXI's using current-gen MMORPG formula, then yes it's work. If you don't want to play a game that feel like work, then don't play it. But there ARE ppl out there wants to play a game like 2nd life/work. It's the same reason why I don't enjoy Dark Souls because I hate dying over and over and walk all the way back to boss battle again, but some people enjoy it. Should I pop on a forum tell them to fix it? No, I simply just accept the fact that Dark Souls isn't for me and walk away.

I don't agree with FFXI should be super casual friendly in everything just because majority of players wants casual MMO. By number, casual market in gaming industry is always bigger, regardless of the genre. But that doesn't mean a 12 year old MMO that've been hardcore should change it's game direction by ditching it's old royal players. FFXI isn't going to get many new players because the UI/mechanic/graphic was subpar, it's first priority is to keep the old players by offering service they liked for past 12 years. If FFXI goes casual, it'll only piss off majority of old players AND it's not going to get that many new players anyways.

I think a lot of your "this isn't fun, this feel like work, why everything takes so long" attitude simply won't work in FFXI. Plenty of players play FFXI but not another MMO because of what FFXI is. I agree that pre-lv 99 FFXI is not as fun as how it used to be, due to the lack of player to pt with, and CoP nerf completely killed the sense of accomplishment of CoP. I agree that something should be done to fix it. But I don't agree with your opinion on Mythic, and I still don't understand why you'd worry about Mythic takes forever when you still haven't finish majority of content. Back when I decided to do a Mythic, I started it because I want to play this game for 5+ years, not because I want to finish the best weapon after a few months.

I've played quite a lot of MMORPG in my life, none of them last for longer than 2 months. FFXI is the only MMO last longer than 4 years, I played it daily and it's one game that changed my life. To me, this game is more than just a video game, but a 2nd life. I purposely choose to play this MMO, instead of GW2/WoW/SWTOR/FFXIV(none of the above title last longer than 2 months for me) and so on, because I want a 2nd life MMO but not "play for fun" MMO. If I want a "play for fun" MMO, I can always just reactivate my account in other titles.

As for the community, if your attitude is "I can't/don't know how to do this, please help me", I'm 100% sure plenty of players are willing to help. I've helped a lot of newer players back in the past, let new/returning players leech delve wins, give plenty of suggestions about how to gear jobs using my own time. And I've received a lot of help in noobie era too.

But if your attitude is "I don't like how this works, please change it.....wait you like how this works? NOSTALGIA GOOGLES!" Then obviously other people won't be happy. It's not the community is rude, it's you pop on a forum, wanting the game to change to something else. Criticizing certain aspect of this game using your own standard, then criticize anyone that disagree with your opinion.

How'd you feel if I criticize GW2 for the lack of holy trinity, or criticize SWTOR for being story focused, or criticize daoc and warhammer for being PVP focused?

Everything takes forever to do in FFXI, on the same time it feels nice to finally finish doing what you were doing in FFXI, has been the main appeal of FFXI for those who've been playing for years. I don't play GW2 if I want holy trinity, and IMO, FFXI simply isn't for you if you don't want to spend 3 years doing tons of boring stuff in a game. The way you view FFXI, by the time you really get every goal done, CoP done, lv 99 done, all AF 119 done, you still won't feel satisfied because all the higher lv content isn't any different from grinding CoP and mythic and so on, it still take forever, it still feels like work. All the endgame content in this game is still based on "living another life in a MMO". You're having unrealistic expectation toward this game and just wanted it to be something else. Even if everything is "fixed", you still won't have fun because your POV toward this game.

When I just started, I had the same opinion toward MMORPG too, game should be fun but not like life/work. So other FFXI players suggested me to quit. I didn't quit in the end, and there were time that I felt frustrated about this game too. But in the end, I received plenty of help from others and managed to complete majority of the goal in this game, now it's on the list of my favorite video game of all time...at least pre-SoA FFXI was. I changed my POV toward "game shouldn't feel like life/work", because the emotional attachment and sense of accomplishment is greater when the game is more than just a game.

FFXI is just different from other MMO, you either accept it's different and aiming for a niche market, or save $12 a month. Chang your attitude toward this game, play FFXI for the sake of living in the world of FFXI, not get the best gear and beat the most epic boss. Or else you'll never enjoy this game no matter what.

althought, i do think you are being a bit harsh on crevox and that some of the other ppl in this thread deserves it. i think think this is a job or second life. i can agree that we want and can appreciate the more long term goals this use to offer vs this lol casual and lol super casual the already nerf casual play. long term goals that set it apart from all other game in the genre. i do understand and agree with your perspective. so thank you because i sure was not going to type that. bookmarked

edit. damn you fixed my answer while i was typing lol yeah long term goals!

[Afania]

althought i do think you arebing a bit harsh on crevox and that i think think this is a job or second life. i do understand and agrewe ith your perspective. so thank you because i sure was not going to type that. bookmarked

Actually Crevox is 10x more harsh than me....he down right called me out when I stated my POV toward MMORPG. But I never call him out for his opinion toward MMORPG. I don't even label him anything, only been stating my opinion toward what FFXI is. I honestly don't understand what's so harsh about it. I've heard something 100 times worse when I was a noob, lol.

[L0IRE]

I almost want to lol@ your statment. I really don't see ANYONE in this thread "look down on everyone else with their 1200 days playtime". I have around 366 days of playtime, I liked my past 366 days of FFXI experience, so I defended for it because I don't like game direction change. I don't think I've ever use any "you suck, you're lazy" when defending for my opinion either. There are specific aspect in FFXI that I enjoyed, such as long term goal. But I never go "if you don't do long term goal you're lazy/suck" or anything like that, I even encourage ppl not to do long term goal lol.

I explained why I disgree with OP's opinion several times, with reasons.

On the other hand, there are several post that subtly hinted that I'm an "no-lifer elitist" just because I defended for FFXI direction and long term goals.

I think it's more like you(and OP) doesn't like my opinion, so you feel the urge to use such a negative label so your opinion is more legit. That doesn't mean you'd change my opinion though. If you want to convince me why instant gratification is better game direction, tell me why.

Ive played the game for 5 years, seen people do this in every dying game, boo hoo theres new people who cant party properly, and you think cause your 1 of the few people who have the patients for them that my opinion isn't legit, everyones had their own experiences, I share mine, you share yours, so what if mine are negative, who are you to say that my experiences aren't legit.

thats very presumptuous. we have a different perspective based on experience. It does not mean we are bitter nor that we look down on the newer playerbase. its often 2 self righteous people who dont know how to communicate to each other on the really issues and respect each other opinion. most situation or opinions are best off some bad experience with someone and because somenoe has a similar belief it associated with that situation and emotion. if anything you are the one who seems the grumpy, impatient, a self righteous. ironically.

statements like this " impatient, basement dweller elitist who look down on everyone else with their 1200 day play time" proves that.

any person who plays any game (especially this game not just genre) and regrets their time is ignorant.

we were new the this game at some points and wish for something to be different. i havent forgot that feeling and i make sure to include that in my advise. You can agree with it or not. usually the difference is you are only advocating for you own experience and not looking at the bigger picture.

again

sorry you got treated the way you did in-game and on this forum, people forget where they come from when they can't see it from their pedestal.

sorry you got treated the way you did in-game and on this forum, people forget where they come from when they can't see it from their pedestal.

hows the weather up there bud?

if anything you are the one who seems the grumpy, impatient, a self righteous. ironically.

so if this is true, then your a hypocrite? Basically just turned what I said on myself, doing the same for which you are blaming me, minus the fact I never directed this statement to you or any other indirect user.

I'm actually pretty chill guy, as I said before, I spend most my time helping when I can, people help me, so I give back, but for everyone 1 person who helped me there was 100 trying to put me down and get me to "go back to WoW", so as my statement was generalized and not in direct connection to anyone person, and regretting time isn't ignorant, its apparent, to admit your time could of been better spent is ignorance? Please Sir look up the word "Admittance" and "Ignorance" in the dictionary.

[L0IRE]

I said nothing about Lineage2 being "next-gen", only said FFXI can't compete with other next-gen MMO such as ARR/GW2/Rift/SWTOR IF FFXI follow next-gen MMO direction.

I was skeptical about your claim that Lineage2 change game direction and got THAT many sub increase. There must be other factor, such as switching to F2P model, or a relanuch. Usually a drastic game direction change in an established title= game gonna lose sub, not the other way around. Every once a while I heard players complained about how WoW going downhill after going casual friendly direction, and SWG players complained about SWG after it change to WoW direction too. All those titles bleed sub after direction change, by pissing off the existing player base.

Players play FFXI, because it's different from WoW/Rift/ARR/Terra and so on, turning FFXI into those titles= XI gonna die because it can't compete with other similar titles.

maybe you should collect an opinion for yourself instead of going off what you "heard", you haven't played Lineage though you make assumptions, play those games, come back, and have a valid point, I understand you believe your precious FFXI isn't going to change, but it already has, and it will keep changing to keep the subs, it will get easier and easier, cater to those 1 hour a week casual gamers. It's happened to them all, and with TRUST and Level sync you really still think it hasn't happened yet.

I'm sure that Square values your opinion, but I don't think "not competing" is in their business model...

[Camiie]

Aside from that, you just dodged the question. You provided no solution to the problem of how to handle events locked behind missions and quests. Again, would you remove the prerequisites? Or would you dumb them down? Or are you proposing that the best weapons and gear in the game be as easy to get as Eminent weapons?

The quests and missions have to be able to be realistically completed by someone at the level which they were intended to be completed. That has to take into account player populations. If the reality is that someone will be highly unlikely to find assistance with a goal that currently requires assistance then the path to that goal needs to be adjusted. That doesn't mean that there should be no risk of failure, but there must always be a realistic path to success.

Now before someone jumps on me, I'm stating a general philosophy. I'm not here to debate whether or not any particular content meets that standard.

[Afania]

maybe you should collect an opinion for yourself instead of going off what you "heard", you haven't played Lineage though you make assumptions, play those games, come back, and have a valid point, I understand you believe your precious FFXI isn't going to change, but it already has, and it will keep changing to keep the subs, it will get easier and easier, cater to those 1 hour a week casual gamers. It's happened to them all, and with TRUST and Level sync you really still think it hasn't happened yet.

I'm sure that Square values your opinion, but I don't think "not competing" is in their business model...

Since you're the one making the statment, how about you give me supporting data to prove your assumption is right? My assumption is made by past data, AND you agree about F2P model yourself.

Also, you can't accurately analyze why sub increase by just playing the game. Just because the game change toward a direction you like, doesn't mean it's the main factor of sub increase. Like how majority of player probably liked recent FFXI solo change, but that doesn't mean they can make the conclusion of FFXI being solo friendly = main reason why sub increase.

Also, I'm not against every change that cater to 1hr a week gamers(although I highly doubt there's a point to keep sub on if you play 1hr a week), I'm only against killing every long term goal in this game, because I find long term goal the only reason why I play this game for more than 2 months. I said nothing about trust/lv sync and so on. I'm only against gear comes too fast AND having to toss it just as fast like SoA FFXI. And there's a reason behind it, that's more than being elitist.

[Afania]

Ive played the game for 5 years, seen people do this in every dying game, boo hoo theres new people who cant party properly, and you think cause your 1 of the few people who have the patients for them that my opinion isn't legit, everyones had their own experiences, I share mine, you share yours, so what if mine are negative, who are you to say that my experiences aren't legit.

When you often pull out assumptions out of your asses and label anyone who disagree with your opinion, it won't convince anyone. Out of entire thread that defended for OP's opinion, only what Camiie said made sense. I see flaw in logic and blind "if you're against game heading toward instant gratification direction, you're an elitist" assumption in pretty much every other reply that defended for OP's POV.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

So you face 5 AA out of nowhere, not knowing their background, and not having the emotional attachment toward those 5 bosses, do you think he's gonna have fun?

Supposedly people enjoy doing Seal/Crest/Empty/IS/ANNM's in spite of those having no lore beyond a "clever" name for the battlefield. What's the lore behind Fe'e?