I think I'm finished; a new player's final thoughts

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Then there wouldn't be a desire to even obtain those items and you undervalue the effort people put into obtaining them.

You overestimate the entertainment value of that effort. S-E has historically had issues selling that for $9.99.

[Afania]

they already have catered to the "call of duty/WoW " crowd with sync parties among other changes to XP and parties, the age that ffxi lives in is dead and gone, MMO grinds are a thing of the past, its a relic, even games like Lineage 2 which required hours upon hours to gain mid-game levels, like ffxi, died, and came back reborn with your so dubbed "call of duty/WoW" style, now is flourishing and opening new servers with the influx of new players, the game has even opened up in brazil and Russia, a game that was down to running 2 ghost town servers, so its like life, survival of the fittest, you can either adapt, change, and be relevant with times, or stay the same, wither, and die.

I'm not familiar with Lineage2, so I'm not sure what you said are accurate or not. There are usually more than 1 factor to get more player, changing to F2P model or a relaunch is usually No.1 reason why a title get more players. Drastic change of game direction alone isn't going to boost sub numbers. I fail to see how'd a 12 year old MMO compete with current-gen MMO if the 12 year old MMO do exactly the same as current-gen MMO.

Honestly, I see no reason to play FFXI if FFXI is the same as WoW/SWTOR/ARR/GW2 and so on. I've been thinking about quitting recently just because I feel FFXI is getting too similar to other titles, and I'd rather play other titles if they're all the same.

[Afania]

Judging by your two threads, FFXI's just not your cup of tea.

You want to rush to the elitist end-game grind for some reason, something that isn't even fun, and you clearly don't enjoy the story, the journey, or character growth. If the story, journey, and progression seem like work to you, then clearly this isn't the game for you. Because endgame is REAL work and no damn fun.

Endgame is fun, but it's not same kind of fun as ARR fun. ARR is instant gratification kind of fun, dodge red circle, voice chat with teamate and do thing on right time and so on.

FFXI endgame is more of a "long, hard journey toward a goal" kind of fun. There's zero satisfaction if the gear in FFXI come too soon. In fact I've been feeling FFXI is a lot less fun than how it used to be because it's getting more and more instant gratification, on the same time less instant gratification than games like ARR....gears are easy to obtain like ARR, but no dodge red circle/boss mechanics to play with.

OP asked "how much work he gonna do until he can enjoy the game", my answer is "he'll never enjoy the game" if he can't change his POV toward the game, and vice versa.

I agree that lower lv content isn't as fun as how it used to be because of solo solo solo, when it used to be party or bust pre-Abyssea. But this kind of POV(game should be fun not work) still doesn't fit quite well with FFXI even if he finally reach endgame party content.

[detlef]

By not leaving new players feeling like they need a relic or a mythic to begin with.

(So sick of fighting over colorless souls...)

So how would you propose that SE fix that? There are already weapons in the game that are ilvl 119 like Tsurumaru, Izhiikoh, etc. There are Eminent weapons that aren't far behind. SE is planning to introduce a 3-song instrument that is supposedly easy to get (we'll see about that). Steadfast shield is supposed to be competitive with Ochain when it comes to total damage mitigation (or so I've heard). There are a ton of competitive weapons that even the most casual player can obtain relatively easily. There are even better options that can be obtained with a little more dedication. At the other end of the spectrum are RME weapons, which are not necessary for anything save the most difficult BCs. And some people might even argue that they are not necessary even then.

Aside from that, you just dodged the question. You provided no solution to the problem of how to handle events locked behind missions and quests. Again, would you remove the prerequisites? Or would you dumb them down? Or are you proposing that the best weapons and gear in the game be as easy to get as Eminent weapons?

[Mirage]

You don't have to do things alone, there are still players out there. I bet I could restart the game on a new character and when I'm forced to play with people I could find them. This guy is just helpless and complaining because he is a WoW era MMO kiddie and wants everything handed to him. He wants this entire game changed to suit his needs because he wants to blast through all the content he deems as crap. Sorry missions are nothing because he just wants to do the latest endgame so he can complain when he finishes it all and says the game has no content.

I'm not saying this because I think you're being arrogant or something, but I think it would be a great idea if you did that in the name of science. Level a new character, don't tell your friends what his or her name is, try to get to 99 and to clear all the stuff needed to participate in the SoA endgame. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. I'd do it myself, but I think I have more catching up to do than you.

[AppropriateName5786]

So how would you propose that SE fix that? There are already weapons in the game that are ilvl 119 like Tsurumaru, Izhiikoh, etc. There are Eminent weapons that aren't far behind. SE is planning to introduce a 3-song instrument that is supposedly easy to get (we'll see about that). Steadfast shield is supposed to be competitive with Ochain when it comes to total damage mitigation (or so I've heard). There are a ton of competitive weapons that even the most casual player can obtain relatively easily. There are even better options that can be obtained with a little more dedication. At the other end of the spectrum are RME weapons, which are not necessary for anything save the most difficult BCs. And some people might even argue that they are not necessary even then.

Aside from that, you just dodged the question. You provided no solution to the problem of how to handle events locked behind missions and quests. Again, would you remove the prerequisites? Or would you dumb them down? Or are you proposing that the best weapons and gear in the game be as easy to get as Eminent weapons?

It is not the playerbase's job to figure out how to fix the game's problems.

Frankly, everything that came before adoulin should be "dumbed down" more, simply because it adds nothing to the current game and never really did. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain from new players joining and being able to enjoy the relevant content ASAP. The toxic people in this thread that are killing the game with their rose-tinted glasses and contempt for good change (*good* meaning helping FFXI stay online and contributing to an overall more enjoyable game experience) have already had their fun, now it's time to let the younger/newer/fresher players enjoy theirs.

Please just realize that no one can take your past experiences and the fun times you had away from you (short of a concussion, memory loss, or death) nor is anyone trying to. Other people having fun now can not diminish the fun you had in the past, yet so many people in this thread act like a new player having immediate access to relevant content and enjoying himself causes them intense physical pain. On Sylph, it takes VW/AA/SKCNM/Delve groups HOURS to fill up regardless of the time of day. As someone who often organizes groups for things I can't find shouts for, I'd love it if server populations exploded and every new player who got to 99 and took 5 minutes to read an online strategy guide joined my group in Eminence gear and learned through doing the content, i.e. having access when it matters.

Get rid of fame, get rid of roadblocks to zones and events related to missions, get rid of JP midnight waits, get rid of shop times in Norg etc, get rid of antiquated physical roadblocks like Eldieme's/Shrine of Ru'Avitau's, get rid of all minimum person requirements like they did for Meebles/Assault, get rid of the 1 hour wait after getting kicked out of Abyssea, get rid of the inane Chocobo quest that's really just a microcosm of every storyline in the game, get rid of long spawn/respawn times for NMs, get rid of 0.01% drop rates. In short, get rid of everything that sucks about this game and let the good parts shine.

I love this game, and so I empathize with the OP and those arguing on his side. I play this game to fight big bad monsters, get good-looking gear and weapons, and cast spells with impressive animations, and I've been playing on and off since 2004. One of my in-game friends plays to keep his girlfriend company. Another plays because he has always wanted a mythic drg and it hasn't been possible for him until now. There is an infinite number of reasons people can give for playing this game, and all of them are valid as long as they pay the monthly fee and it doesn't affect anyone else negatively. There is so much more to this game than the extremely overrated storylines, so please stop saying that new players like the OP should be forced to go through them. Help this game change for the better and it will last much longer.

[L0IRE]

I'm not familiar with Lineage2, so I'm not sure what you said are accurate or not. There are usually more than 1 factor to get more player, changing to F2P model or a relaunch is usually No.1 reason why a title get more players. Drastic change of game direction alone isn't going to boost sub numbers. I fail to see how'd a 12 year old MMO compete with current-gen MMO if the 12 year old MMO do exactly the same as current-gen MMO.

Honestly, I see no reason to play FFXI if FFXI is the same as WoW/SWTOR/ARR/GW2 and so on. I've been thinking about quitting recently just because I feel FFXI is getting too similar to other titles, and I'd rather play other titles if they're all the same.

Lineage 2 isn't "next-gen" It was created one year after Final Fantasy XI and WoW, could of taken two seconds to look that up at least, it will be 11 years old this year, and almost everyone from my gaming community who played it 6 years ago( 120+ people) are playing it now, regardless of new mmo's, its stayed current, and its not hard with the crap that's out there to be honest, and yeah it just recently switched to F2P which also boosted numbers, but I mean if I didn't have to pay for FFXI, id come back at least one week every month instead of one year on and off.

But that being said, when a game goes F2P I feel the customer service takes a dive, so the argument of how could a 12 year old MMO compete with a next-gen, easy, there isn't any next-game MMO's, name one? Terra? AION? Rift? FFXIV? All these so called "next-gen" mmo's were complete flops on release, and now are f2p minus FFWoW..I mean FFXIV, neither of them were creative or innovative, character classes sucked, all of them took the worst aspects of WoW and try to call themselves "next-gen", other games have stayed relevant to survive and keep subs, FFXI will do it too, regardless of what you want or believe, its what brings in the bacon.

[Afania]

Lineage 2 isn't "next-gen" It was created one year after Final Fantasy XI and WoW, could of taken two seconds to look that up at least, it will be 11 years old this year, and almost everyone from my gaming community who played it 6 years ago( 120+ people) are playing it now, regardless of new mmo's, its stayed current, and its not hard with the crap that's out there to be honest, and yeah it just recently switched to F2P which also boosted numbers, but I mean if I didn't have to pay for FFXI, id come back at least one week every month instead of one year on and off.

But that being said, when a game goes F2P I feel the customer service takes a dive, so the argument of how could a 12 year old MMO compete with a next-gen, easy, there isn't any next-game MMO's, name one? Terra? AION? Rift? FFXIV? All these so called "next-gen" mmo's were complete flops on release, and now are f2p minus FFWoW..I mean FFXIV, neither of them were creative or innovative, character classes sucked, all of them took the worst aspects of WoW and try to call themselves "next-gen", other games have stayed relevant to survive and keep subs, FFXI will do it too, regardless of what you want or believe, its what brings in the bacon.

I said nothing about Lineage2 being "next-gen", only said FFXI can't compete with other next-gen MMO such as ARR/GW2/Rift/SWTOR IF FFXI follow next-gen MMO direction.

I was skeptical about your claim that Lineage2 change game direction and got THAT many sub increase. There must be other factor, such as switching to F2P model, or a relanuch. Usually a drastic game direction change in an established title= game gonna lose sub, not the other way around. Every once a while I heard players complained about how WoW going downhill after going casual friendly direction, and SWG players complained about SWG after it change to WoW direction too. All those titles bleed sub after direction change, by pissing off the existing player base.

Players play FFXI, because it's different from WoW/Rift/ARR/Terra and so on, turning FFXI into those titles= XI gonna die because it can't compete with other similar titles.

[Afania]

It is not the playerbase's job to figure out how to fix the game's problems.

Frankly, everything that came before adoulin should be "dumbed down" more, simply because it adds nothing to the current game and never really did. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain from new players joining and being able to enjoy the relevant content ASAP. The toxic people in this thread that are killing the game with their rose-tinted glasses and contempt for good change (*good* meaning helping FFXI stay online and contributing to an overall more enjoyable game experience) have already had their fun, now it's time to let the younger/newer/fresher players enjoy theirs.

Please just realize that no one can take your past experiences and the fun times you had away from you (short of a concussion, memory loss, or death) nor is anyone trying to. Other people having fun now can not diminish the fun you had in the past, yet so many people in this thread act like a new player having immediate access to relevant content and enjoying himself causes them intense physical pain. On Sylph, it takes VW/AA/SKCNM/Delve groups HOURS to fill up regardless of the time of day. As someone who often organizes groups for things I can't find shouts for, I'd love it if server populations exploded and every new player who got to 99 and took 5 minutes to read an online strategy guide joined my group in Eminence gear and learned through doing the content, i.e. having access when it matters.

Get rid of fame, get rid of roadblocks to zones and events related to missions, get rid of JP midnight waits, get rid of shop times in Norg etc, get rid of antiquated physical roadblocks like Eldieme's/Shrine of Ru'Avitau's, get rid of all minimum person requirements like they did for Meebles/Assault, get rid of the 1 hour wait after getting kicked out of Abyssea, get rid of the inane Chocobo quest that's really just a microcosm of every storyline in the game, get rid of long spawn/respawn times for NMs, get rid of 0.01% drop rates. In short, get rid of everything that sucks about this game and let the good parts shine.

I love this game, and so I empathize with the OP and those arguing on his side. I play this game to fight big bad monsters, get good-looking gear and weapons, and cast spells with impressive animations, and I've been playing on and off since 2004. One of my in-game friends plays to keep his girlfriend company. Another plays because he has always wanted a mythic drg and it hasn't been possible for him until now. There is an infinite number of reasons people can give for playing this game, and all of them are valid as long as they pay the monthly fee and it doesn't affect anyone else negatively. There is so much more to this game than the extremely overrated storylines, so please stop saying that new players like the OP should be forced to go through them. Help this game change for the better and it will last much longer.

The issue wasn't even really mission's cockblocking progress, but OP's attitude toward playing this game isn't healthy IF he wants to keep playing.

Sure, maybe dev can remove CoP/zilart requirement, so every new player no longer bother with sky/story mission and they can jump straight to AA battles. So you face 5 AA out of nowhere, not knowing their background, and not having the emotional attachment toward those 5 bosses, do you think he's gonna have fun? Part of the fun about doing AA is more like "Oh look, it's the AA I fought in 75 era, and now they have zomg awesome empy WS! So bad ass!". Without knowing ANY of the background about AA and empy WS, AA is just another irrelevant boss with no emotional attachment. You simply won't enjoy such fight as much if you haven't finish story.

You said there's nothing to lose by removing story requirement, I don't agree with you. New players lost way more than what they gain if they have no emotional connection behind the game's story and lore.

Mythic is the same, by making the requirement half of what it is, Mythic is no longer mythic. No longer the weapon that take away 1~3 years of your life building it. No longer the "OMG MYTHIC" weapon.

Call it rose-tinted glasses all you want, but the fact is, 90% of fun in FFXI came from emotional attachment and the community, but not awesome game design. I agree that certain aspect of the game should be streamlined. I think having to solo everything to 99 is pretty anti-FFXI, and something should be done about it. CoP too, the issue isn't CoP cockblocking progress, but the lack of CoP party. Personally, I don't see much point to keep playing FFXI if CoP/zilart/rank missions are just skippable storyline that should be watched on youtube. It'd be just a shallow, hollow MMORPG where you kill boss and get loot.

What is FFXI? Prishe, Ark angels, Whitegate, got lost/stuck in open world dungeons, ZOMG 1 YEAR OF RME GRIND, and zomg bad ass relic/empy WS, terrible endgame(on the same time you can't resist to make a SS when finally got the item), your close friends, your BRD and WHM mule, afking in Jeuno or Adoulin, chating with LS 80% of time when logged on........that is what makes FFXI FFXI. FFXI is a life style, everything you do in FFXI, from getting stuck in open world dungeons to terrible endgame is part of it, it is just not a "kill boss and get item then quit after 3 months of playing" type of MMORPG.

[detlef]

It is not the playerbase's job to figure out how to fix the game's problems.

No, it's not our job, obviously. I posed that question because I was wondering if there was a solution to allow easier access to locked content while still giving players a reason to complete missions. Nobody seems to have an answer, so I'm not sure it's possible. I think what we have today is pretty close to the common ground, where content is still locked behind missions, but the missions are very easy.

Frankly, everything that came before adoulin should be "dumbed down" more, simply because it adds nothing to the current game and never really did. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain from new players joining and being able to enjoy the relevant content ASAP. The toxic people in this thread that are killing the game with their rose-tinted glasses and contempt for good change (*good* meaning helping FFXI stay online and contributing to an overall more enjoyable game experience) have already had their fun, now it's time to let the younger/newer/fresher players enjoy theirs.

Tell me how things can be dumbed down more. Are you talking about missions? They're already dumbed down. The only way they could really be improved would be to remove mandatory waiting periods, which I support.

Or are you talking about events like Dynamis, Salvage, and the like? That stuff is already soloable so I don't know what you'd suggest.

Get rid of fame, get rid of roadblocks to zones and events related to missions, get rid of JP midnight waits, get rid of shop times in Norg etc, get rid of antiquated physical roadblocks like Eldieme's/Shrine of Ru'Avitau's, get rid of all minimum person requirements like they did for Meebles/Assault, get rid of the 1 hour wait after getting kicked out of Abyssea, get rid of the inane Chocobo quest that's really just a microcosm of every storyline in the game, get rid of long spawn/respawn times for NMs, get rid of 0.01% drop rates. In short, get rid of everything that sucks about this game and let the good parts shine.

Sure, get rid of all of that. Except the mission requirements. That's not going away whether you like it or not. SE didn't spend hundreds of man hours on those story lines and cut scenes to make them utterly skippable. Like I said, making the missions as easy as they are today is already a compromise. All that other stuff you listed? Sure, change it all. It'll make the game better. But you know, nobody was arguing against any of that stuff so I don't know why you brought it up.

I love this game, and so I empathize with the OP and those arguing on his side. I play this game to fight big bad monsters, get good-looking gear and weapons, and cast spells with impressive animations, and I've been playing on and off since 2004. One of my in-game friends plays to keep his girlfriend company. Another plays because he has always wanted a mythic drg and it hasn't been possible for him until now. There is an infinite number of reasons people can give for playing this game, and all of them are valid as long as they pay the monthly fee and it doesn't affect anyone else negatively. There is so much more to this game than the extremely overrated storylines, so please stop saying that new players like the OP should be forced to go through them. Help this game change for the better and it will last much longer.

That's good. You and your friends have multiple reasons for playing the game. You can play for fun, you can play casually and shoot for instant gratification. You can use the game to as a social tool and play just to interact and have fun with others. You can shoot for the best gear in the game by setting long term goals and slowly work your way toward completion. It's all good.

The issue I and others have is when people decide they want to have their cake and eat it too. That is, they want the best gear in the game but they don't want to put the effort into it. Case in point, the OP wants a Nirvana but thinks the Mythic quest is impossible. Rather than accept that he can't have the best weapon in the game without working for it, he is complaining that the quest is impossible. Well, your friend the DRG wants to make one and sees that it is very possible to do as a long term goal. The quest can be completed, although it's not always fun to do. But it's also absolutely, unconditionally optional. There's still 99.9% of the game for players who don't think the quest is worth the time. But some people derive satisfaction from the quest. This doesn't mean they are crazy, it just means that they have a different outlook from the OP.

Also, I agree the story lines are overrated (except for WotG), but then again I never advocated doing missions for the story line. In fact, I think we agree on almost all of your points.