Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 47
  1. #11
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    We are talking about the same game, right? You do realize you're the only one that believes your false logic, don't you? Let me prove my point. Does anyone else think enmity is perfect just the way it is?
    (3)

  2. #12
    Player Zekander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Posts
    102
    Character
    Zekander
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    The enmity system in general is fine, it's the enmity cap that's the problem.
    (0)

  3. #13
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthar View Post
    We are talking about the same game, right? You do realize you're the only one that believes your false logic, don't you? Let me prove my point. Does anyone else think enmity is perfect just the way it is?
    Pretty sure it's the same game. ^^

    I'm just describing the way it has worked for me and I tank a lot on my Paladin. I've never had a problem with this game's enmity system and like it. It's a breath of fresh air from other games that rely on the dull tank and spank model which can get boring.

    When the damage dealer takes damage they should lose enmity - especially if they ease up or back off. The situation you describe sounds more like a damage dealer trying to show off instead of controlling their damage. Because I like that a NM will turn around and attack a DD after they use a hard hitting weapon skill. It adds more challenge and makes the AI better. It also encourages the DD to consider his defenses as well as his offense. And I think that's important.

    I doubt it's a perfect system. Probably some improvements could be made. But I just haven't noticed any major flaws in it. Rather or not anyone else agrees with me - that's ok. I don't mind being in the minority
    (1)

  4. #14
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zekander View Post
    The enmity system in general is fine, it's the enmity cap that's the problem.
    I think it's at a good spot.

    I can usually hold threat pretty easily until a DD uses a weapon skill, then the monster will usually turn and attack the player who just nailed it. This is especially true if it was a skill chain or something. So it's working like I think it should. And the very skilled damage dealers know how to fit in weapon skills and still stay under the radar.

    I've always believed that monsters should retaliate when a player hits them with something nasty. If they were to raise the cap that might would interfere with that. But I don't know that for sure.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 11-04-2014 at 09:52 AM.

  5. #15
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Here you go, Dale: http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity

    Lets look at how you'd defeat a BCNM boss (~1.1mil HP) using that system with a 3 DD, 1 PLD party. We can assume the DDs do only twice as much damage as the PLD. Given the emphasis on the Enmity system, lets ignore options like Trick Attack, Super Jump, High Jump, etc. because (with the exception of Decoy Shot) they're typically not solutions.

    Formula
    1,100,000 = 3.5*DD
    DD = 314286 damage

    DDs cap Volatile and Cumulative Enmity when they do ~28k damage, but each will have to do another 286k damage somehow or the monster won't die. If you look at the page, you'll notice that the only way to lose any substantial amount of enmity is to either wait (which only loses VE), take damage, or die. First, lets investigate the waiting option. You lose 60 VE every second and gain ~1.08 VE per point of damage. So you could do 55 damage per second and not cap VE. This would take 5,200 seconds, or ~87 minutes. That's obviously not possible given the 30 minute time limit on every BC.

    So lets look at damage taken. Every 1 damage you take loses you enough CE that you can do 2.8 damage back to the monster to regain the same CE. So each melee would have to take 102k damage in order to stay below the CE cap while doing 286k damage. They'd need to take 56 damage per second to beat a BC in exactly 30 minutes. That's a 500 damage AoE every 8-9 seconds, or 1500 damage for a party with 3 DDs.

    Final option is to have your DDs die and reset their hate. They'd each need to die 10 times in order to kill the monster, so that's not really a viable option either.

    So it's basically impossible to "control enmity" as a DD if you actually want to kill the BCNM boss in 30 minutes, unless you're going to lean on the options that I ignored for the sake of purely evaluating the enmity system.
    (5)

  6. #16
    Player Reaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    34
    Character
    Thereaper
    World
    Sylph
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    it seems the real issue is the disparity in the rates of enmity gain and loss(also the exponential curve mob hp has taken) since we've gained numerous ways to deal higher and higher damage(and thus massively increased our enmity gain) and at the same time, new enemies have large hp pools, necessitating this increased damage, but the decay rate for enmity has basically remained the same(aside from the one update that caused -enmity gear to increase enmity loss when damage is taken, but i have yet to see anyone take advantage of this)
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Byrth View Post
    Here you go, Dale: http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity

    So it's basically impossible to "control enmity" as a DD if you actually want to kill the BCNM boss in 30 minutes, unless you're going to lean on the options that I ignored for the sake of purely evaluating the enmity system.
    Then why is it I do BCNMs all the time with DD who control their enmity Bryth?

    And they don't die. At least not usually
    (0)
    Last edited by Dale; 11-05-2014 at 01:25 AM.

  8. #18
    Player Dale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    802
    Character
    Jeremi
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Reaper View Post
    it seems the real issue is the disparity in the rates of enmity gain and loss(also the exponential curve mob hp has taken) since we've gained numerous ways to deal higher and higher damage(and thus massively increased our enmity gain) and at the same time, new enemies have large hp pools, necessitating this increased damage, but the decay rate for enmity has basically remained the same(aside from the one update that caused -enmity gear to increase enmity loss when damage is taken, but i have yet to see anyone take advantage of this)
    I wouldn't mind increasing the rate at which players lose enmity when they sustain damage. I could support that.
    (0)

  9. #19
    Player Byrth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,172
    Character
    Byrth
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    I'm super glad you've found melee that can defy game mechanics and avoid tanking, Dale.

    Spoiler alert, they don't. They take hate from you regularly and survive it.
    (3)

  10. #20
    Player Malthar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    674
    Character
    Malthar
    World
    Shiva
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    I'm pretty sure he's mistaking this game for another, Byrth. Either that or he's off his meds. I'm leaning more towards "off his meds" because he does not accept rational explanations, rather, choosing to stick with what he believes to be real.
    (1)

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast