We are talking about the same game, right? You do realize you're the only one that believes your false logic, don't you? Let me prove my point. Does anyone else think enmity is perfect just the way it is?
We are talking about the same game, right? You do realize you're the only one that believes your false logic, don't you? Let me prove my point. Does anyone else think enmity is perfect just the way it is?
The enmity system in general is fine, it's the enmity cap that's the problem.
Pretty sure it's the same game. ^^
I'm just describing the way it has worked for me and I tank a lot on my Paladin. I've never had a problem with this game's enmity system and like it. It's a breath of fresh air from other games that rely on the dull tank and spank model which can get boring.
When the damage dealer takes damage they should lose enmity - especially if they ease up or back off. The situation you describe sounds more like a damage dealer trying to show off instead of controlling their damage. Because I like that a NM will turn around and attack a DD after they use a hard hitting weapon skill. It adds more challenge and makes the AI better. It also encourages the DD to consider his defenses as well as his offense. And I think that's important.
I doubt it's a perfect system. Probably some improvements could be made. But I just haven't noticed any major flaws in it. Rather or not anyone else agrees with me - that's ok. I don't mind being in the minority
I think it's at a good spot.
I can usually hold threat pretty easily until a DD uses a weapon skill, then the monster will usually turn and attack the player who just nailed it. This is especially true if it was a skill chain or something. So it's working like I think it should. And the very skilled damage dealers know how to fit in weapon skills and still stay under the radar.
I've always believed that monsters should retaliate when a player hits them with something nasty. If they were to raise the cap that might would interfere with that. But I don't know that for sure.
Last edited by Dale; 11-04-2014 at 09:52 AM.
Here you go, Dale: http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Enmity
Lets look at how you'd defeat a BCNM boss (~1.1mil HP) using that system with a 3 DD, 1 PLD party. We can assume the DDs do only twice as much damage as the PLD. Given the emphasis on the Enmity system, lets ignore options like Trick Attack, Super Jump, High Jump, etc. because (with the exception of Decoy Shot) they're typically not solutions.
Formula
1,100,000 = 3.5*DD
DD = 314286 damage
DDs cap Volatile and Cumulative Enmity when they do ~28k damage, but each will have to do another 286k damage somehow or the monster won't die. If you look at the page, you'll notice that the only way to lose any substantial amount of enmity is to either wait (which only loses VE), take damage, or die. First, lets investigate the waiting option. You lose 60 VE every second and gain ~1.08 VE per point of damage. So you could do 55 damage per second and not cap VE. This would take 5,200 seconds, or ~87 minutes. That's obviously not possible given the 30 minute time limit on every BC.
So lets look at damage taken. Every 1 damage you take loses you enough CE that you can do 2.8 damage back to the monster to regain the same CE. So each melee would have to take 102k damage in order to stay below the CE cap while doing 286k damage. They'd need to take 56 damage per second to beat a BC in exactly 30 minutes. That's a 500 damage AoE every 8-9 seconds, or 1500 damage for a party with 3 DDs.
Final option is to have your DDs die and reset their hate. They'd each need to die 10 times in order to kill the monster, so that's not really a viable option either.
So it's basically impossible to "control enmity" as a DD if you actually want to kill the BCNM boss in 30 minutes, unless you're going to lean on the options that I ignored for the sake of purely evaluating the enmity system.
it seems the real issue is the disparity in the rates of enmity gain and loss(also the exponential curve mob hp has taken) since we've gained numerous ways to deal higher and higher damage(and thus massively increased our enmity gain) and at the same time, new enemies have large hp pools, necessitating this increased damage, but the decay rate for enmity has basically remained the same(aside from the one update that caused -enmity gear to increase enmity loss when damage is taken, but i have yet to see anyone take advantage of this)
I'm super glad you've found melee that can defy game mechanics and avoid tanking, Dale.
Spoiler alert, they don't. They take hate from you regularly and survive it.
I'm pretty sure he's mistaking this game for another, Byrth. Either that or he's off his meds. I'm leaning more towards "off his meds" because he does not accept rational explanations, rather, choosing to stick with what he believes to be real.
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