Please fix thief SE. Tired of being the joke job of FFXI for end game. Job Balance!

[Kiyara]

Now it just seems that the community has gotten so picky beyond belief (due to the fact population is next to none and everyone seems to be in the "only these jobs for everything" mentality) that thf literally has 0 purpose in end game. Aside being told to 'level monk" (get sick of hearing that), thf has to be able to do dmg on some level in end game to be useful.

I know we aren't supposed to be the best nor are we a war or sam etc, but we are a DD, not some backline job that runs to the front to hit the mob once and we stand back the rest of the fight (been told this multiple times and been called useless in every aspect of end game). We can't do voidwatch, delve, hard mode dynamis NMs, hard mode salvage, etc due to our ineffectiveness.

I must be missing something here because the fact that I'm told we can't do anything end game related is unacceptable in my eyes nor am I going to be "bullied" by the server to quit/retire thf and play mnk which is some sorry copout/excuse.

And seriously SE, fix thief. You've been treating us as one of the biggest loljobs since the beginning. In end game, our evasion is useless, our TH is useless, our dps is lacking. Seriously, what do we have? We deserve more than what we have. I didn't level my thf to be a tool. I leveled it to be a solid DD and actually love using the job and playing it to my full potential. I didn't gear it to be a meaningless visual trophy. Leveling another DD is not an acceptable answer. Period.

Here is what I suggest:

1) If you are going to make Treasure Hunter useful, make it useful across the board. This is a star trait yet it almost has 0 application in end game situations. We can't use it in anything that drops a chest/crate/BCNM/etc due to the fact that TH has no bearing on the drop rate. To be honest, it should. It should affect everything drop related period.

2) Increase our usefulness aside just TH. We honestly should be able to do decent/good damage overall and not have to be second banana to every other DD job. We are a damage dealing job. Not a gimmick/TH only job.

3) Make our tools useful to the situation across the board, not just low level content. We have so many abilities and traits that are completely useless in an end game situation. Evasion for example has literally no use on end game mobs. This is one of our star traits and all the end game mobs have capped accuracy so that makes us useless to dodge. Sneak Attack and Trick Attack should be usable more often. Once every 1 minute is too long. It should be cut down to like 30-45 seconds each or so and make the merit traits increase the damage modifier. This is our big damage time. Every other melee job just needs their tp to 100% and they unleash big damage. Ours is extremely situational.

4) Base damage is too low against high level mobs in comparison to other jobs. When I can swing for 60-200 damage a hit in comparison to a monk who does 200-600 damage swing that attacks just as quickly or in some cases faster, what chance do I have to be remotely useful? 2 hander jobs I understand hit harder which makes sense but the problem is here is there is way too much tierism in the jobs.

Overall, the jobs definitely need balance. It's not just thief either. Other jobs such as Beastmaster, Blue Mage, Red Mage (they seriously got the shaft), and some others are in the same boat as well being undesired in end game. The goal here is to make every job useful in end game situation. Everyone wants to play a game to use their favorite job and not be forced to level another job. People want options. We need those options. Balance is important. Lot of other jobs got plenty of love such as paladin, dragoon, warrior, black mage, etc. Thieves and other aforementioned jobs need the same.

[Zarchery]

Are there any jobs that haven't complained about being the "joke" job at some point in the history of the game?

[Louispv]

Are there any jobs that haven't complained about being the "joke" job at some point in the history of the game?

BRD, COR, WHM, and WAR have been pretty much at the top from day one. On the other hand THF has never been anything but a joke. Even when it was most popular it was a "Stick the THF in for 1 hit at the end for TH, then kick him again" job. Which is a mule's job now.

[FaeQueenCory]

BRD, COR, WHM, and WAR have been pretty much at the top from day one. On the other hand THF has never been anything but a joke. Even when it was most popular it was a "Stick the THF in for 1 hit at the end for TH, then kick him again" job. Which is a mule's job now.

T_T that's still more than what SMN has gotten....

But on topic:
The whole TH thing is totes spot on.... maybe if TH affected the current endgame: Delve... maybe there could be a spot for THF.

THF has the highest evasion in the game... but NIN is a better evasion tank due to blink-tanking.
THF can dual wield daggers: fastest weapons in the game.... But like Kiyara said... death by 1000 pokes isn't really doing anything when MNKs do the same speed of delay for a bajillion more damage. With the ability to have more than one 119 weapon.... maybe the DD aspects of THF can be viable. Even if only a little.


We also need to remember: it's not the fault of the players that most of the jobs have 0 place in Delve atm. (I'm hoping full 119 armors will let more people in... like how the 119 REM should have...)
It's the fault of the design of the event.
And the fact that MNK has access to the one of the easiest 119 weapons to get.
Which is also the fault of Delve... At least with the 119REMs all weapons have a 119.
VW was well designed with inclusivity... because having at least 1 of every job was a benefit. (though there was still priority to certain jobs... it didn't EXCLUDE the way Delve does.)

[Damane]

BRD, COR, WHM, and WAR have been pretty much at the top from day one. On the other hand THF has never been anything but a joke. Even when it was most popular it was a "Stick the THF in for 1 hit at the end for TH, then kick him again" job. Which is a mule's job now.

i would like to disagree and say that, RDM was on the top until WHM got buffed, whm was only in for alliance fights or for somethign that required stona, otherwise it was allways RDM. WAR was never really on the top, ecxept after the RNG nerf, and even then it was for 1 year Samurai heaven (ZOMG dont feed the mob TP!!! just use meditate). COR was on the top after they buffed the potency of rolls. As for BRD thats correct.

people need to get of the stigma that only leet jobs can do endgame. Talk to the people that refuse thf, the job itself is fine. Its not a developer problem its a playerbase problem (hello mnk-heaven we have now...)

[Louispv]

i would like to disagree and say that, RDM was on the top until WHM got buffed, whm was only in for alliance fights or for somethign that required stona, otherwise it was allways RDM. WAR was never really on the top, ecxept after the RNG nerf, and even then it was for 1 year Samurai heaven (ZOMG dont feed the mob TP!!! just use meditate). COR was on the top after they buffed the potency of rolls. As for BRD thats correct.

RDM was never the top healer. You needed Curagas and Cure V for anything hard. Even in merit parties, the RDM had to be constantly casting and managing mp to stretch their mp over convert's recast, while the WHM could stick regen on the puller, regen on the DD who sucked at reapplying shadows, and then take a knee because healing's covered until that wears. Then SCH dropped RDM from second best healer to third, and after that WHM/SCH dropped it from 3rd best healer to solo job. Increasing level and enemy damage output, without increasing RDM healing ability basically took them from a healer to "Odd gear that BLU is wearing." Good thing Enfeebling's back, or RDM would be right here next to the THF's.

WAR's always been on top. At the beginning it was the only tank job. Then it was the only acceptable DD because of rampage-spam. Then it was the only acceptable DD because it had everything /WAR gives and everything /NIN gives at once, while every other DD had one or the other because it had all of /WAR and all of /SAM at once, when everyone else had one or the other. Then every single event needed one for 2/3 of the abyssea procs. Then every single group needed them for 1/2 of the voidwatch procs. Even after that, with every DD tanking and DDing at once, the WAR can DD as well as the other DD's, and has retaliation/provoke to make it a slightly better tank, too! Only in the cases of obviously broken, soon fixed problems was it not #1, and it was always the clear #2 then anyway. (shoot and stab RNG's and OatMNKs)

And COR, really? In a game that requires several buffers to do anything well, that has never had even half enough of them, no one has ever turned down a COR. I have shown up in a subligar and a gun, and nothing else, and I haven't been kicked or asked to change. And the COR buffs didn't need to be buffed until increased skill from increased level made BRD songs stronger, while COR's static numbers fell behind. Prior to that COR's buffs were stronger than BRD's, and you ended up disbanding a party if you didn't get at least one of each.

But the point was, every job got a day in the sun, or have never left the sun, except THF. Even freaking DNC got to be useful in merit parties for Haste samba, and that's basically a better replacement THF.

[Comeatmebro]

Keeping it short and sweet:

- Content with an 18 man limit that can be cleared consistantly with 9 is not exclusionary. Players are exclusionary.

- THF is fine, assuming both are perfectly geared, a THF will contribute more to the alliance than a MNK will in ceizak. The disadvantage in other zones is not severe. Players don't like THFs because many of them are not geared well, and leave a bad impression that brings the whole job down. It seems that those with the resources to get the top end gear gravitate toward the more popular jobs.

- Kiyara has some serious entitlement issues. Like, serious.

[FaeQueenCory]

- Content with an 18 man limit that can be cleared consistantly with 9 is not exclusionary. Players are exclusionary.

9_9
Yes because VW totes excluded the vast majority of jobs because they didn't contribute to the challenge at hand.
Oh wait. No. That's the EXACT OPPOSITE of VW where having 1 of everything increased procing chances.

Yes. Exclusion is on the players.
But the fact that the content is set up to encourage this is also undeniable.
(VW was set up to be anti-exclusionary... by having something for every job to do. Delve does not do this, and by not doing this enables exclusionary practices.)

[Glamdring]

- Content with an 18 man limit that can be cleared consistantly with 9 is not exclusionary. Players are exclusionary.

en vino veritas

[Karbuncle]

- Kiyara has some serious entitlement issues. Like, serious.

While I agree THF has some potential, the use of the term "Entitlement/Entitled" hits the wrong buttons. We're basically in an era where people refuse to believe we, as a people or consumer, should get anything more than what they give us, and if someone has the audacity to ask for more, the companies don't even have to silence them or make some BS PR response anymore, idiot sheep just come in and shoot them down by calling them entitled, burrying any hope we have as a consumer of ever getting the service, respect, and assurance our feedback is valued that we deserve.

... Sorry... I'm a little touchy on this subject you see, not THF in general but the fact this generation of gamers is so content with being fed the scraps of anything good while they sell you DLC left and right, and anyone who speaks out against such blatant bullcrap is labeled as "entitled?... letting greedy companies like EA and such get away with what is basically robbery.

*not that this applies to square enix* (PS nothing against you )

T_T that's still more than what SMN has gotten....

Not true. SMN was my first job to 75, back around CoP... I was invited and wanted to many of the BCNM for CoP (Astral Flow and what not), I had a spot in many Jailers for my ranged hateless damage, was used a lot during Kirin fights for Nether Blast back when that was actually a thing... Even up to ToAU I got in Odin fights for my hateless damage, and once we got Alexander our uses grew a lot more.

While we were far from the star of the party, SMN has had a useful spot in endgame pretty much entirely... though we did fade into crapness around the raise of level cap... But we did use to have our day way back when :0

(ANYWHO)

On topic, back when this forum was first opened I, and many others, made a few threads on how to improve THF, needless to say like a true modern era company, none of the suggestions, while I'm sure properly delivered by our community team, were ever implemented. (except in some small scale with Bully, which allows SA to work from any direction)... So my feelings on THF are well known, I love the job, its my favorite tied with SMN, but the job is very lackluster, and regardless of how poor the job is or isn't, the community sees it as crap, and educating any mass group of people who are complacent and accepting of their ignorance is an impossible task, so I gave up.

Goodluck Kiy, i know ranting makes you feel better, but It'll be a cold day in hell before any job suggestions are implemented :|