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  1. #31
    Player Kari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    284
    Character
    Aisaka
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Thief needs more than just enmity control, which is almost useless btw.
    (1)
    /人 ‿‿ 人\


  2. #32
    Player Selindrile's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    628
    Character
    Selindrile
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    BLU Lv 99
    Or better enmity control, as I and some others have proposed.
    (0)

  3. #33
    Player Blah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    427
    Not that enmity control isn't good but I hope that isn't the only thing they have planned for thief.
    (1)
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

  4. #34
    Player Alexandero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    US
    Posts
    12
    Character
    Alexandero
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Blah is right, No one is going to shout for a THF because solely on Enmity Control.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    They also mention reducing SA/TA Recast timers, and frankly that would be a nice boost to THF. Even if it was to 50 or 45 seconds, it'd still add a good margin to their DPS.

    Lets be honest, THF isn't MNK, but a good THF is still a good DD, if they could managed making THF more offensive through SATA Recasts and give them the ability to plant hate firmly on the tank often enough, It could find its way into event that focus around "Low enmity" generation. People say Annihilator and Yoichi exist, but those are only useful because of their hate mitigation. If THF could control enmity in any meaningful way, You could invite a MNK or WAR instead, do more damage, and not have to really worry about Enmity cause the THF could control it.

    Your thoughts are too narrowed, people only use the RNG method cause of the same enmity control, If THF could do this job, other DD could make their way into the party and RNGs would be replaced with a THF/DD set up instead. The Thief however, would need to not be sh*t tier, and of course have balling gear same as any DD, it would not be a half-assed job.
    (1)

  6. #36
    Player Blah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    427
    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    They also mention reducing SA/TA Recast timers, and frankly that would be a nice boost to THF. Even if it was to 50 or 45 seconds, it'd still add a good margin to their DPS.

    Lets be honest, THF isn't MNK, but a good THF is still a good DD, if they could managed making THF more offensive through SATA Recasts and give them the ability to plant hate firmly on the tank often enough, It could find its way into event that focus around "Low enmity" generation. People say Annihilator and Yoichi exist, but those are only useful because of their hate mitigation. If THF could control enmity in any meaningful way, You could invite a MNK or WAR instead, do more damage, and not have to really worry about Enmity cause the THF could control it.

    Your thoughts are too narrowed, people only use the RNG method cause of the same enmity control, If THF could do this job, other DD could make their way into the party and RNGs would be replaced with a THF/DD set up instead. The Thief however, would need to not be sh*t tier, and of course have balling gear same as any DD, it would not be a half-assed job.
    I'm not narrow-minded I just think that JUST enmity control is too, ah narrow-minded. Plenty of people have suggested lots of good things (stances come to mind, so does my ideas) and all they come in to say is they're looking at enmity control for the future of thief. Not that that is for sure the direction they're taking but...lot of good ideas are going to fall to the wayside if they do that and only that.
    (0)
    Please do not post if you are drunk, high or madly delirious from lack of sleep...HEY WHERE'S EVERYONE???

  7. #37
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Blah View Post
    I'm not narrow-minded I just think that JUST enmity control is too, ah narrow-minded. Plenty of people have suggested lots of good things (stances come to mind, so does my ideas) and all they come in to say is they're looking at enmity control for the future of thief. Not that that is for sure the direction they're taking but...lot of good ideas are going to fall to the wayside if they do that and only that.
    Well to put it bluntly, the game doesn't need another DD job... Not that you're suggesting a Damage buff would be better than enmity control, I'm just stating for the record it wouldn't be. Any damage boost we get would not put us on par with MNK, and in that case in the eyes of the narrow-minded community, we'd still be a dead job.

    If THF is going to get anywhere its going to have to be through good solid utility. Enmity control is actually an important factor these days, again which is why RNG is even used... since its got Decoy Shot and WS like Namas and Coronoch which have very low enmity outputs.

    Its clear SE is very finicky about THF, so much so they're afraid to even give the job Subtle Blow, any changes, even "initial stages" bring hope to me for the jobs future. While Enmity control is no the path I'd like THF to take in its entirety (I personally think THFs should have JAs that utilize tools like Quick Draw, like "Traps and Bombs" that damage and inflict ailments and such), its a step in the right direction for me.

    The reduction of SA and TA would be nice too, hich even if its a side effect of them pushing us toward Enmity control, would be a wonderful step.

    I'd like to hope for more but one does not look a gift horse in the mouth. if SE can do something useful with Enmity control and THF, it just opens up more possibilities for us to explore with the job, which in my eyes, is nothing but a good thing.
    (1)

  8. #38
    Player
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    1,749
    Here's a long post I made while trying to get FFXI to work on my new Windows 8 setup. It's long and pointless and nobody should read it. Go look up a recipe for stuffed mushrooms instead and read that and you'll be happier and a better person.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karbuncle View Post
    Well to put it bluntly, the game doesn't need another DD job... Not that you're suggesting a Damage buff would be better than enmity control, I'm just stating for the record it wouldn't be. Any damage boost we get would not put us on par with MNK, and in that case in the eyes of the narrow-minded community, we'd still be a dead job.

    If THF is going to get anywhere its going to have to be through good solid utility. Enmity control is actually an important factor these days, again which is why RNG is even used... since its got Decoy Shot and WS like Namas and Coronoch which have very low enmity outputs.
    I think the game itself being so straight and narrow in many ways is a big part of why every Shouty Shamus McMacroscanchangemypantsididnotknowthat takes such a close-minded view of hitting stuff in the evil crotch. Dealing melee damage is pretty much just getting your delay down, getting your attack up, then making the right choice between one of two ideal weaponskills: the one that performs 10-20% better when your attack remains uncapped and the higher fTP option that performs better 10-20% when your attack is capped.

    I would just launch straight into a weird and sad poop metaphor from here, but the recent string of adjustments to things related to or totally unaffected by delay reduction make me think the Development Bros are finally starting to grasp how killing stuff in FFXI has happened more or less from Treasures of Aht Urhgan forward.

    Optimistically:

    Thief is already used for some strategies where bros need to play it super-duper safe, such as fighting a single Very Hard arch-angel with two Ninjas as the melee. I could see a niche opening up for Thief if the job had far more enmity control than Ranger or Scholar at the cost of needing to be in AoE range to contribute much of anything. It would probably be something like the niches occupied by Ranger or Paladin, which aren't terrible places to be as long as there's a decent variety of content that actually gives that niche role a place and purpose.

    That would also mean that Thief could play even more differently than a Monk who renounced The Divine Order of the Punching Fist to join The Enlightened Way of the Poking Knife. This seems vaguely relevant, since Monk-lite was the optimal way to play Dancer in many situations from the day Dual-Wield made Dancer useful for anything at all until the massive adjustment to Waltz recasts made Dancer valid as actual support.

    Pessimistically:

    Damage is done in the same clear-cut and straight-forward way across all melee jobs and enmity is pointless in some situations. Thus, it's a dark and bitter task to make a melee job that messes with enmity desirable without just tacking on a carbon-copy of Berserk or Last Resort or Impetus. It doesn't help that some bro among the Development Bros still thinks Treasure Hunter is the best thing since inflatable girlfriends in spite of more and more magical pants coming from chests and/or point-systems and/or key items and/or terrible random Wildskeeper Rieve reward pools and/or [insert other drop mechanic not affect by Treasure Hunter here] as FFXI's years roll on; and in spite of Treasure Hunter doing nothing to make Thief more fun, complex, or interesting to use in combat.

    Seeing this change announced is like that sinking feeling that a friend with severe Crohn's disease will poop in the bed they've made rather than sleep in it. The only hope is that this time, the poop will be so foul and effluent that anyone witness to it will feel amusement and disgust rather than pity. Also, maybe it'll leak into the apartment below onto the stuff of that jerk who plays dub-step and witch house at all hours. I have no idea where this metaphor is going anymore.

    tl;dnr version:

    Stuffed mushrooms. Ugh, poke that niche! Effluent poop.
    (4)

  9. #39
    Player Mikkel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    16
    Character
    Mikkel
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Personally, i'd like to see SA and TA share a recast timer (dont go crazy yet) and then have the recast cut in half... so you could TA-> TA or SA->SA depending on what you're doing, but in the same period of time you can SA and TA now.
    Then change the merits to 'tricks recast' -1 sec/merit to effect both SA and TA and 'Enhanced Assassin' which would transfer 5% of your total enmity/merit to a total of 25% to your TA target. With this change you could actually manage hate in a party and it would give THF more flexibility.
    (0)

  10. #40
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    At first glance, I actively dislike that idea as it throws away a major damage spike we get... combined SATAWS. Which while not completely practical, has its applications.

    I get what you're going for, and i like the principle of your idea... I just don't feel I'd want to give up the spike potential of SATAWS as an exchange. Though, I do see the potential in a ~25s SA or TA however... Honestly I'd say this is a tough call, In the long run I can see your idea being better for us. Hmmm, I mean it could be worth the trade off, but I doubt that kind of deep job change will make its way into THF.

    And if they're looking to reduce SA/TA Timers, i'd rather bank my chances on them deciding to keep them separate and on 30 second timers lol
    (1)

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