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  1. #11
    Player Damane's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    715
    Character
    Damane
    World
    Phoenix
    Main Class
    DNC Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Louispv View Post
    BRD, COR, WHM, and WAR have been pretty much at the top from day one. On the other hand THF has never been anything but a joke. Even when it was most popular it was a "Stick the THF in for 1 hit at the end for TH, then kick him again" job. Which is a mule's job now.
    i would like to disagree and say that, RDM was on the top until WHM got buffed, whm was only in for alliance fights or for somethign that required stona, otherwise it was allways RDM. WAR was never really on the top, ecxept after the RNG nerf, and even then it was for 1 year Samurai heaven (ZOMG dont feed the mob TP!!! just use meditate). COR was on the top after they buffed the potency of rolls. As for BRD thats correct.

    people need to get of the stigma that only leet jobs can do endgame. Talk to the people that refuse thf, the job itself is fine. Its not a developer problem its a playerbase problem (hello mnk-heaven we have now...)
    (2)

  2. #12
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    They need to make THF an assassin job and not just a support treasure hunter job with enmity gimmicks. All the little steps and sambas that DNC had should have been JAs for THF tbh, would have fit THF to be able to gice up TP to enfeeble the mob while building up for stronger WS or other kinds of technical things. But alas, SATA need even shorter recasts in this day and age, like 30 seconds. A stance that ups the THF's attack and crit% when behind the mob but lowers evasion and their own critical evasion, kind of like Innin or something. Gives THFs more of a reason to stay out of sight and to encourage them to be behind the mob. Against NMs which are immune to steal/despoil, allows THF to steal temp items from them. Dusty Potions, Catholicon, Stalwart's Tonic etc..
    (2)

  3. #13
    Player
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,401
    Also I like to add the thing is SE tries to incorporate THF and other types of melees by making mobs resistant to other forms of damage so you need a mix of slashing/blunt/piercing/magic/ranged. Many NMs in fracture have some gimmicky thing where their damage resistance changes which fosters fair play amongst all jobs.

    Matamata shifts physical and magical, so we nuke it down to 6 TP moves then zerg it.
    SE probably intended your group to fight it straight up and just balance both types of damage.

    Chapuli has high eva when you WS, SE probably intended this to be killed with Blue Magic(takes a crapload of damage to Blue Magic) and Rangers, good physical DDs that don't rely on WS much.

    Krakatoa/Craklaw/Mastop etc similar

    Even the Delve bosses shift weaknesses from Piercing/Blunt/Magical/Slashing/Ranged at various 25% stages(most of these go overlooked except Tojil's but the Shark has dmg phases too). The thing is ppl don't care about damage resistances when you have MNK which has incredible attack power, solid weapon skills, can bolster everyone's survivability, has the most HP which is ideal to prevent being one-hit-KO'd by obscenely strong AoEs that basically need to be stunned locked or you get hit for 2.5-3k and can counter/guard/self heal etc and to top it off can bypass any kind of weakness with Formless Strikes. Why bring a THF for piercing when a MNK can bypass it all? Hell even DRK has Twilight Scythe. Might as well give THF, DRG and WAR a way to bypass special defense too(actually SE's first idea for WAR SP2 was a 30 second formless strikes without the dmg reduction lthat could proc on WS too) but knowing SE, they'll probably give WAR that as a lvl 72 JA with a 3min recast next month.


    The problem is, why find a DRG, THF, SAM, RNG, BLM when you can get a BLU with Requiescat, Mura SAM and 4 Oatixur MNKs with Formless which bypass all those defenses/weaknesses with non-elemental damage?
    (1)
    Last edited by Ophannus; 12-16-2013 at 03:55 PM.

  4. #14
    Player Karbuncle's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    4,314
    Quote Originally Posted by Comeatmebro View Post
    - Kiyara has some serious entitlement issues. Like, serious.
    While I agree THF has some potential, the use of the term "Entitlement/Entitled" hits the wrong buttons. We're basically in an era where people refuse to believe we, as a people or consumer, should get anything more than what they give us, and if someone has the audacity to ask for more, the companies don't even have to silence them or make some BS PR response anymore, idiot sheep just come in and shoot them down by calling them entitled, burrying any hope we have as a consumer of ever getting the service, respect, and assurance our feedback is valued that we deserve.

    ... Sorry... I'm a little touchy on this subject you see, not THF in general but the fact this generation of gamers is so content with being fed the scraps of anything good while they sell you DLC left and right, and anyone who speaks out against such blatant bullcrap is labeled as "entitled?... letting greedy companies like EA and such get away with what is basically robbery.

    *not that this applies to square enix* (PS nothing against you )

    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    T_T that's still more than what SMN has gotten....
    Not true. SMN was my first job to 75, back around CoP... I was invited and wanted to many of the BCNM for CoP (Astral Flow and what not), I had a spot in many Jailers for my ranged hateless damage, was used a lot during Kirin fights for Nether Blast back when that was actually a thing... Even up to ToAU I got in Odin fights for my hateless damage, and once we got Alexander our uses grew a lot more.

    While we were far from the star of the party, SMN has had a useful spot in endgame pretty much entirely... though we did fade into crapness around the raise of level cap... But we did use to have our day way back when :0

    (ANYWHO)

    On topic, back when this forum was first opened I, and many others, made a few threads on how to improve THF, needless to say like a true modern era company, none of the suggestions, while I'm sure properly delivered by our community team, were ever implemented. (except in some small scale with Bully, which allows SA to work from any direction)... So my feelings on THF are well known, I love the job, its my favorite tied with SMN, but the job is very lackluster, and regardless of how poor the job is or isn't, the community sees it as crap, and educating any mass group of people who are complacent and accepting of their ignorance is an impossible task, so I gave up.

    Goodluck Kiy, i know ranting makes you feel better, but It'll be a cold day in hell before any job suggestions are implemented :|
    (1)

  5. #15
    Player Economizer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,397
    Character
    Thelaughingman
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Louispv View Post
    BRD, COR, WHM, and WAR have been pretty much at the top from day one. On the other hand THF has never been anything but a joke. Even when it was most popular it was a "Stick the THF in for 1 hit at the end for TH, then kick him again" job. Which is a mule's job now.
    WHM hasn't always been on top, and its position has been hardly secure post the cure changes a while back.

    And mules job? White Mage is stuck so hard in the mule's spot that you'll often see WHM/THF over THF, and the term "solo" often means "with my White Mage mule".

    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    i would like to disagree and say that, RDM was on the top until WHM got buffed, whm was only in for alliance fights or for somethign that required stona, otherwise it was allways RDM.
    The time of the pink birds and the pink mages... those were dark times indeed.

    To address the OP, you'd probably prefer longer timers and better damage on Sneak Attack and Trick Attack instead so you don't eat it on white damage.
    (1)

  6. #16
    Player Louispv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    280
    Character
    Louispv
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Damane View Post
    i would like to disagree and say that, RDM was on the top until WHM got buffed, whm was only in for alliance fights or for somethign that required stona, otherwise it was allways RDM. WAR was never really on the top, ecxept after the RNG nerf, and even then it was for 1 year Samurai heaven (ZOMG dont feed the mob TP!!! just use meditate). COR was on the top after they buffed the potency of rolls. As for BRD thats correct.
    RDM was never the top healer. You needed Curagas and Cure V for anything hard. Even in merit parties, the RDM had to be constantly casting and managing mp to stretch their mp over convert's recast, while the WHM could stick regen on the puller, regen on the DD who sucked at reapplying shadows, and then take a knee because healing's covered until that wears. Then SCH dropped RDM from second best healer to third, and after that WHM/SCH dropped it from 3rd best healer to solo job. Increasing level and enemy damage output, without increasing RDM healing ability basically took them from a healer to "Odd gear that BLU is wearing." Good thing Enfeebling's back, or RDM would be right here next to the THF's.

    WAR's always been on top. At the beginning it was the only tank job. Then it was the only acceptable DD because of rampage-spam. Then it was the only acceptable DD because it had everything /WAR gives and everything /NIN gives at once, while every other DD had one or the other because it had all of /WAR and all of /SAM at once, when everyone else had one or the other. Then every single event needed one for 2/3 of the abyssea procs. Then every single group needed them for 1/2 of the voidwatch procs. Even after that, with every DD tanking and DDing at once, the WAR can DD as well as the other DD's, and has retaliation/provoke to make it a slightly better tank, too! Only in the cases of obviously broken, soon fixed problems was it not #1, and it was always the clear #2 then anyway. (shoot and stab RNG's and OatMNKs)

    And COR, really? In a game that requires several buffers to do anything well, that has never had even half enough of them, no one has ever turned down a COR. I have shown up in a subligar and a gun, and nothing else, and I haven't been kicked or asked to change. And the COR buffs didn't need to be buffed until increased skill from increased level made BRD songs stronger, while COR's static numbers fell behind. Prior to that COR's buffs were stronger than BRD's, and you ended up disbanding a party if you didn't get at least one of each.

    But the point was, every job got a day in the sun, or have never left the sun, except THF. Even freaking DNC got to be useful in merit parties for Haste samba, and that's basically a better replacement THF.
    (0)

  7. #17
    Player mattkoko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    119
    Character
    Seig
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiyara View Post
    I'm just more upset at the community overall. The bigotry/ignorance of these end game groups is just unbelievable. I never did that crap when I ran my end game LS. Everyone was welcome.
    I very much agree with this point. However, I am going to look at the other side of the coin and say that SE created that mentality when abyssea came out and new players were able to leech every job to 99. During all of the abyssea launches, it was not uncommon to see people level capped with no subjob. I am not trying to give the elitists and excuse for only looking for certain jobs. Some of them have always been like that. But there has been a dramatic increase in the mentality since abyssea came out. It is alright to be a casual player, but there is a difference between casual, and having no clue of the mechanics of the game. And now we have an entirely new breed of players who THINK they are elite. They think the best way is the only way. Now, I understand that there has always been people like this, but now it is even more so. Back in the old days, even before level sync, you were almost forced to be flexible, unless you wanted to wait around for the perfect set up for hours (sometimes days). Now we have new Elitists that don't know all of the mechanics of the game because they never bothered to figure them out, so they only know one way of doing something. Abyssea created this. You are suppose to learn the mechanics as you level. Trial and error. Now there is never a trial until they get to endgame. And they think just because they got lucky in an endgame event, that is the only way it must be done. Then there are the real elites, that actually know the mechanics, but they are afraid of getting this new breed of noobs, so they only look for the people with the best gear, with hopes they actually know what they are doing. And even then, it is rare they find that, which pushes them to look even harder. And although I hate that mentality, I understand that mentality because no one wants to go to an event just to wipe. Especially when it is an event where only the alliance leader needs the item and did all of the work to get it. The last thing they want to do is invite people that are too lazy to even know what that item is and waste it. With all of this said, you can't compare running an endgame ls now to an endgame ls in old ffxi. The simple fact is, then, you were forced to learn the mechanics as you level. Now, all you have to do is sit around and/or hit the forbidden key macro to open chests. Which is perfect. They go to an endgame event, all they know how to do is open the reward chest. You don't even need a key for that. You just need to win the event. Good luck with that one.
    (0)

  8. #18
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    I'm just returning to the game, so I apologize in advance if my understanding of the game is not up to date.

    I have some suggestions to balance out THF. Though I don't feel that the recast timers should just be cut. That is too easy and I feel they THF should have to do some work for it. I propose a high level job trait that will let haste affect the cool down time of job abilities like how it affects magic recast timers. Not just THF job abilities either, but the THF's sub job too. Hopefully that will make for some more interesting sub job combinations, which I think would be neat. Naturally special job abilities like two hours won't be affected. Probably the one hours too. It should also help out with my next point.

    Aura steal is a pain to use. I am no stranger to trying to dispell something annoying like ice spikes and getting a cruddy bonechip. From the way I understand how the ability works, it only does an aura steal if the regular steal misses. I feel it should aura steal if the item is stolen or not. That way you can get both the item and a buff. That in combination with a shortened cooldown from the trait above should make aura steal dispelling a viable option. Also EVERY buff in the game should have some chance of being stolen. I understand that in some cases stealing the power would be crazy broken, but it should just have a very low chance of success like 0.5%. That way it would almost never happen, but every now and then you will hear a story about the time a THF stole it and briefly became a god.

    Next up is despoil and mug. Every mob in the game should have a despoil list. Even if the item is just junk no one wants, it still should have one and get a debuff from having it stolen. Mug, while getting a little extra gil is nice, not many monsters actually drop gil. That's why it needs to be a little more offensive. It is called mug, so it is only fitting the mob gets bashed over the head and stunned.

    I get that the problems with changing THF, especially the money gathering skills is having to worry about RMT. However just because some players want to abuse this, does not mean that good players should get the short end. One thing that can be done to make it less appealing to RMT is to make it a +96 ability so if they want to use it they have to do the level 95 limit break. Also it could be changed so mobs can only have each item and gil stolen once, though extra uses will still cause the battle effects of aura steal, despoil debuffs, and stun.

    I hope these changes aren't so drastic that it would require large changes to the game code. I tried to make the changes easy to implement. However I feel they would be a great step to improving THF endgame functionality.

    Oh and I also agree that treasure hunter should affect everything treasure related instead of only normal drops. Oh and if you already ninja-ed that into the game without people knowing, at least give a hint so people try to test it, or at least make the more superstitious players think it does.
    (3)
    Last edited by Ulth; 12-29-2013 at 02:24 PM.

  9. #19
    Player Eaglestrike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    77
    Character
    Ladyofhonor
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Here are two options to fix THF:

    First: Damage dealing fix.

    1) Make our crit rate increase faster than other jobs via DEX and not be capped (maybe make twice as useful in dDEX calculations and make +30% crit the max bonus via DEX). Probably could/should make this a dagger trait itself, as DNC, melee brd/rdm/etc. could make some use of this as well.

    2) Increase Assassin to not only make TA a critical hit, but make it so every one of our weapon skills can critical hit. Our weapon skills cannot compete with the other jobs because they get multi-hit WS's with a good mod that can crit, our best version of that is evisceration, with only 30% DEX mod to couple with our weak base DMG from daggers. If Mercy Stroke / Rudra's could crit unstacked, they could be used more regularly. If exenterator could crit it would hold up better vs victory smite / shoha / etc. even though it still would not beat them generally.

    3) Give us an AOE damage reduction of sorts. Not a lot is needed, but our evasion doesn't hold up so well vs other jobs that get much higher defense and hp when it comes to the big fights.

    Second option: Hate control.

    1) Make Trick Attack "siphon" enmity. Make it not only produce enmity from our next strike, but "give" our enmity to someone else. We have a 1min cooldown on collaborator, all that REALLY does is give a DD some hate-free attacks, and make us the tank for a short while. If we could steal hate from a DD, then give that hate to the PLD, we would be very useful as we'd make PLD the tank again, and we'd make it so more than just monks can DD and survive.

    2) Make Hide work on EVERYTHING. Including BCNM bosses. And make it 3min cooldown max, preferably 90s.

    Either of these options is fine alone, both are not needed, really. Either make us competitive DD's so groups can see our value, or make us that truly useful hate control job you attempted to throw on us a good chunk of the game. I don't mind so much either way, other than this is an ABSOLUTE MUST CHANGE:

    Native subtle blow. We attack as much as anyone else, even more in certain gear sets, and we still need a subjob and gear to acquire ANY subtle blow. We're thieves, subtle is kind of our thing. Seriously, SE, I don't want to get my alliance killed because I want to play my job.
    (0)

  10. #20
    Player Stify's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    4
    Character
    Stify
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    WHM Lv 99
    Hello all new to the forums, But just to add my 2 cents... i think which the game evolving to a more fast pace content reducing the SA/TA timers could impact THF's DD in a very positive way.10-20 second timers would be amazing.

    Even if timers can't be lowered could it be possible to increase the damage of SA and TA?
    (1)
    Last edited by Stify; 02-17-2014 at 10:50 AM.

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