Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Player Magnus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    8
    Character
    Magnus
    World
    Lakshmi
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99

    New staves vs Magians?

    Hello,

    I am a returning player and i had a few Magians done to 90 (Ice, Lightning, ect) for damage, but after returning i see staves like Atinian Staff..

    My question: Are the trial staves even worth continuing to 99? it does not seem like it to me, so i just want to be sure before I start working on getting either, that i know which is better.

    Please help me out.
    (0)

  2. #2
    Player Tohihroyu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    North Altepa island
    Posts
    256
    Character
    Tohihroyu
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    DRK Lv 99
    The fully finished trial staves are fine (for T4 & 5 along with T3 -gas and -jas), the difference is only slight, I would just finish trials on your stronger nukes and the Atinian Staff for the rest, but the trial ones still have the long tedious trials that you pretty much have to solo. with Atinian Staff you save mp cause you can cast stone or stonega and do really high damage and save mp.
    (0)

  3. #3
    Player Louispv's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    280
    Character
    Louispv
    World
    Carbuncle
    Main Class
    BST Lv 99
    Don't bother finishing the magians. On tier IV/V spells the difference is maybe 20 points a of damage, and you will never land the spell with a magian anyway. The enemies are level 120-130 ( minions) and level 140+ (bosses) so the magic acc+ on the new staves is far more important. A level 99 mage with a magian cannot land anything, while a level 117 mage with an atinian has no trouble at all.
    (2)

  4. #4
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    I mathed it out awhile ago and it basically ended up being only the like 4/6 jas and 3/6 t5 where trial staffs won. And that wasn't taking into account possible resist. A single percent change in resistances could make atinian win on all. And well atinian has enough macc to litterally go from floored macc to capped and then some. So if you aren't on something where you are super super super overcapping on macc trial staffs are going to kill your land rate
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    I mathed it out awhile ago and it basically ended up being only the like 4/6 jas and 3/6 t5 where trial staffs won. And that wasn't taking into account possible resist. A single percent change in resistances could make atinian win on all. And well atinian has enough macc to litterally go from floored macc to capped and then some. So if you aren't on something where you are super super super overcapping on macc trial staffs are going to kill your land rate
    Even the 115 gives crazy Macc... way more than the +35Macc that the 99 magian staves can give you.
    Before the adjustment to Macc with iLvs, Atinian wasn't absolute, cause it only had 40 iirc... But now? Dear god... now the only benefit to the magian staves is... for smn.
    SMN has pretty much the only magian staves worthwhile anymore. (well and Arka IV too)
    Though I think Apajamas II for the recast reduction might still be good for SCHs...
    I think you can cap recast without it easily... especially for sch's now with the RF1 boots... and all the haste on gear...

    So... Apajamas II, Arka IV, SMN staves.
    Anything else: 115 or Atinian... Or best: Mythic. (the 119 mythics are sooooooooooo goooooooood for magery)
    (0)

  6. #6
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Well even for smns magian isn't that great. Well the -perp ones anyways. I guess you can still use the pdt one if you don't need any perp on your weapon. But I mean nowadays you can overcap -perp by like 15 or something lol. And skirimish staff is -5 to all.

    As far as minus recast last I remember they never really found a cap.... but there comes a point when lowering your recast doesn't really help anyways. But talking about that and maybe using atinian instead always results in long drawn out arguments about how useful it might be to have a 3 seconds recast instead of 5 for stun lol.

    For the really hardcore brds they might get staffs for -cast/recast on some songs. And blms to cast a little faster lol. Even cure staff is a tad outdated since every mage except blm I think that can use it can cap without it in just 4 slots. Allowing you to use something like chat staff for even more cure power. Plus even if you still needed cure pot on weapon tamaxi club and genbu shield kinda killed that. Still better off than other magian weapons
    (0)
    Last edited by dasva; 12-06-2013 at 10:59 AM.

  7. #7
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Well even for smns magian isn't that great. Well the -perp ones anyways. I guess you can still use the pdt one if you don't need any perp on your weapon. But I mean nowadays you can overcap -perp by like 15 or something lol. And skirimish staff is -5 to all.
    Actually... This is a common misconception when it comes to smn and the magian staves.
    Because what makes them still second only to Nirvana (that would be #1: Nirvana, #2 Magian, #3 Uffrat/+1)... is not that they cap perp cost. It's that they cap perp cost AND BP timer.
    To be a good smn, you need to cap 3 things: 500 skill, perp cost, AND BP timer.
    And the fact that the magian staves cap 2/3 vital stats for a smn... makes them the former best staves in the game. (the fact that pre-iLv Nirvana ONLY reduced perp cost made the Mythic a macro-only piece... But the 119 Nirvana is more of a fulltime piece... and the stats on the RF1... it's much easier to cap BP timer without the need of the magian staves which lets Nirvana become the BEST staff for SMN again. Cause after the cap was raised past 75, the magian staves offered more for the SMN than Nirvana alone did. But even though the stats on the RF1 allow for Nirvana to be fulltimed.... that relegates the Magian staves to only second tier... for they are still miles ahead of the Uffrats.)

    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    As far as minus recast last I remember they never really found a cap.... but there comes a point when lowering your recast doesn't really help anyways. But talking about that and maybe using atinian instead always results in long drawn out arguments about how useful it might be to have a 3 seconds recast instead of 5 for stun lol.

    For the really hardcore brds they might get staffs for -cast/recast on some songs. And blms to cast a little faster lol. Even cure staff is a tad outdated since every mage except blm I think that can use it can cap without it in just 4 slots. Allowing you to use something like chat staff for even more cure power. Plus even if you still needed cure pot on weapon tamaxi club and genbu shield kinda killed that. Still better off than other magian weapons
    I believe recast caps at -50%.
    Though that could very well be wrong.
    But if it DOES has a cap, which I'm sure it must.
    It would either be at 50% or at 80% since those seem to be the caps for "haste" effects that SE likes using.

    But yeah, Atinian and even the 115 give SO MUCH Macc that they might just be better than apajamas depending on the rest of your sch gear.
    And with the -8% (iirc) cast and recast time of the RF1 boots alone...
    I think capping recast is pretty easy today.
    (heck, getting 20% gear haste on mage jobs can be done without even trying nowadays!)
    (0)

  8. #8
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    Actually... This is a common misconception when it comes to smn and the magian staves.
    Because what makes them still second only to Nirvana (that would be #1: Nirvana, #2 Magian, #3 Uffrat/+1)... is not that they cap perp cost. It's that they cap perp cost AND BP timer.
    To be a good smn, you need to cap 3 things: 500 skill, perp cost, AND BP timer.
    And the fact that the magian staves cap 2/3 vital stats for a smn... makes them the former best staves in the game. (the fact that pre-iLv Nirvana ONLY reduced perp cost made the Mythic a macro-only piece... But the 119 Nirvana is more of a fulltime piece... and the stats on the RF1... it's much easier to cap BP timer without the need of the magian staves which lets Nirvana become the BEST staff for SMN again. Cause after the cap was raised past 75, the magian staves offered more for the SMN than Nirvana alone did. But even though the stats on the RF1 allow for Nirvana to be fulltimed.... that relegates the Magian staves to only second tier... for they are still miles ahead of the Uffrats.)
    Oh I know that but the thing is capping bp timer hasn't been hard since they raised the lvl cap past 75. Right now without even touching weapons or rf1 you can hit -27... so they've kinda lost that luster. Heck you can cap with just relic +1 iirc lol. And as already explained capping perp is also rediculously easy. Now maybe if they finally lift the caps on bp timers. I mean no reason it can't be 30 seconds... increased mp cost will help keep things from being too OP unless you really pimp out your sets and such

    Quote Originally Posted by FaeQueenCory View Post
    I believe recast caps at -50%.
    Though that could very well be wrong.
    But if it DOES has a cap, which I'm sure it must.
    It would either be at 50% or at 80% since those seem to be the caps for "haste" effects that SE likes using.
    It used to cap at 50% but they lifted that awhile back when they started lifting alot of caps. No one has found a recast cap since then last I checked. You can check bg wiki for the testing on that. If there is one it's definitely higher than 80% though since you see people getting 4 second stun recasts and -80% would be 9 seconds. But the question becomes can you get a little bit more? Yes. Will it matter? Probably not.
    (1)
    Last edited by dasva; 12-09-2013 at 08:49 AM.

  9. #9
    Player FaeQueenCory's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    500
    Character
    Eliosha
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    SMN Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    Oh I know that but the thing is capping bp timer hasn't been hard since they raised the lvl cap past 75. Right now without even touching weapons or rf1 you can hit -27... so they've kinda lost that luster. Heck you can cap with just relic +1 iirc lol. And as already explained capping perp is also rediculously easy. Now maybe if they finally lift the caps on bp timers. I mean no reason it can't be 30 seconds... increased mp cost will help keep things from being too OP unless you really pimp out your sets and such.
    The problem with that... is if you decide to cap the BP using the body, legs, or head slot... you loose too much skill to make it worthwhile.
    And if you're just flashing those pieces in for a second to adjust the timer before the BP goes off... that's a bunch of wasted inventory when a single staff provides the same boost and more.
    The magian staves are still the absolute best for SMN because it frees up the rest of your slots to have actually worthwhile gear choices.
    It is no different than Arka IV/Tamaxchi+Genbu/Sol for WHM. Sure, you CAN cap your cure potency with more smaller pieces everywhere.... or you could cap the majority of it in one piece and use the now free slots for more worthwhile gear choices.
    In the case of SMN: +skill and -perp; for WHM: fast cast, +MP, refresh, -cure cast time, etc.

    The magian staves remain the top for smn... The only thing better than them is 119 Nirvana. And that's mainly due to +2Lv. If it was JUST +40% BP dmg... Nirvana would have remained macro-only.
    With two of the best pieces for SMN atm: Convoker's Horn and Summoner Bracers +2, you have a total of -11BPtimer. And because of that, this allows for Nirvana to be full timed.
    But the reason why Nirvana is desirable to full time while Uffrat/+1 is NOT... is because Nirvana does more than just cap -perp.
    Uffrat/+1 is potentially as good for a smn as the lv80 magian staves. (still have that random augmentation to deal with)
    It also gives you +MAB... but Balsam exists and really is just... leagues ahead of Uffrat/+1... even Yaksomo's Pole is better than Uffrat's +MAB.
    And the -11BPtimer only became standard last month... So while Uffrat/+1 has become not a complete PoS thanks to Convoker's Horn alone... It's still by no means anywhere near as good as a Magian stave is for SMN.
    Just as how Tefnut's Wand can't compare to Arka IV or Tamaxchi for WHM.
    (0)

  10. #10
    Player Draylo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    778
    The magian dmg staves are still good for -casting time, but that's assuming you will be casting the highest tier spells that actually have decent spellcasting time.
    (0)

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast