New "AF1"

[FaeQueenCory]

So.... Damn.
Sorta.

I'm having mixed feels about this...

On the one hand you have just zomgwtfbbqbabies pieces that are just 100% best in that slot:

Which, imo, shows that the devs have at least SOME clue to what's good for smn and what we play with. (like I said before... if this update was gonna actually be good... it'll have to compete with the Empy+2 set pieces for everything except the hands where it has to beat relic+2)
Which was really good after seeing what had happened to Nirvana... (I mean... +Mdmg? cause smn be totes flinging spells to actually make use of that...)

Here's the rest. (no glove shots on BG yet, will update this when it happens)





No clue what those +BPdmg percents are yet... Expecting somewhere in the ballpark of 5-10%...
I suppose it could be like that earring with +3%dmg...
But this is JSE... and the +1empy body is +5% with the +2 at +10%...
So... those boots will probably be 5%... but if they are 10%....
Mother of God.

The doublet I'm not sold on.
Especially if it has the same +%dmg that the Empy body has....
But Dear God in Heaven... That horn and those boots...
They're pretty much exactly the upgrade to the empy+2 pieces that we (or at least I) wanted in this 109 set.

IMO: The only pieces worth replacing are the horn and pigaches... the spats don't beat out the empy+2/ngen pants... and the body looks more like a downgrade. (it needs more than +10%dmg to make up for the loss of the +10skill acc and Macc and -4perp... Or more if you have relegated the Empy+2 doublet to macro-only)

EDIT: And overall thought on the method for upgrading:
WTF.
This was dumb. First off, random drops for upgrades = .
(of course that's if I'm reading the update info right... if it's like the translurry for Skirmish weapons... good. they should have just used that anyways.)
Second off: content for AF requiring a full pt is... not fun.
Or at least it's not fun for jobs ppl don't care about *coughRUNcough*
Better get your "+2" items now while ppl are shouting... if you wait like I did with RUN...
You're gonna spend a whole day shouting just to get maybe two ppl...
Cause after everyone updates the gear they want... ain't no one gonna do it again.
The +1ification for AF1 was bad enough... I don't think anyone wanted that again.

[Twille]

content for AF requiring a full pt is... not fun.
Or at least it's not fun for jobs ppl don't care about *coughRUNcough*

Better get your "+2" items now while ppl are shouting... if you wait like I did with RUN...
You're gonna spend a whole day shouting just to get maybe two ppl...
Cause after everyone updates the gear they want... ain't no one gonna do it again.

quoted for truth.
I was pretty sad to see AF upgrades require a full 6-man party.
I suppose I'd better jump on the band-wagon before this 'event' fades into oblivion along with most other content in this game.

[FaeQueenCory]

quoted for truth.
I was pretty sad to see AF upgrades require a full 6-man party.
I suppose I'd better jump on the band-wagon before this 'event' fades into oblivion along with most other content in this game.

My reaction:

"someone responded to my discussion about the new AF!!"
...
D: "nooooooo.... it's about the instant death that Adoulin content is...."


Honestly... I can't say I'm all that surprised that it does... I mean, Yorcia Skirmish is a full pt event...
But to upgrade skirmish weapons to make them serviceable... is a single KI...

Now that I know the REM upgrade requires 300 of a BS item.... that only drops in Delve or certain BCNMs.... and only 1-a few/NM at that...
What does it take to "+2" my AF1 sets?
I don't know because I keep DCd on the update... (dammit other ppl! stop updating so I can! lol)
I have 3-4 sets I want (SMN, DNC -shutit! I like being fa~bu~lo~us!-, WHM, and possibly BLM...) and just the thought of 300 items /piece... makes me gonna just "+2" only the pieces I'm gonna use...

[Mokeil]

My reaction:

"someone responded to my discussion about the new AF!!"
...
D: "nooooooo.... it's about the instant death that Adoulin content is...."

Hehe... yea, its been slow here... And a recent job change has left me far less time to browse the forums than I used to have... Would you mind doin a fellow Summoner a favor and pointing me to a place where I can read up on the upgrade process?

I think I have to agree with your assessment of the gear, though: The head and feet are nice, the rest is kinda lame. That said, I'm still really disappointed. This was a good chance to work in some things like Pet: Double Attack or Pet: Haste (or at least enough -perp to allow us to hit -14 without needing a magian staff) and not doing that just seems like a waste.

[FaeQueenCory]

Hehe... yea, its been slow here... And a recent job change has left me far less time to browse the forums than I used to have... Would you mind doin a fellow Summoner a favor and pointing me to a place where I can read up on the upgrade process?

I think I have to agree with your assessment of the gear, though: The head and feet are nice, the rest is kinda lame. That said, I'm still really disappointed. This was a good chance to work in some things like Pet: Double Attack or Pet: Haste (or at least enough -perp to allow us to hit -14 without needing a magian staff) and not doing that just seems like a waste.

LoL sure, Mokeil.
Edyth has a thread that has what you need to know on the general gist of how to upgrade.
In summary: you get 20 of the new seals, trade them for an orb, go to a specific place to get the right numbered page from Rem's Memoirs (1-5), and then trade a stack of 10 of the right number and the base gear to an NPC in Jeuno.
If you have the +1, it's only 5pgs.
And depending on the difficulty of the BCNM, you will get a guarantee 1-4pgs per fight.
So doing it 10x on the hardest difficulty nets you 4AF sets from the base. (8 if they're all +1'd)

And considering what the original AF for smn looked like..........
Just think of the major transformation that the Relic and Empy sets will be when THEY get 109+ified. (dunno if their iLv will be 109 or if it'll be higher like how AF1 (50-60) - AF2 (71-75) - AF3 (80-89) used to be. Here's hoping Empy+3 is 119! as if... XD )

[Demon6324236]

Just think of the major transformation that the Relic and Empy sets will be when THEY get 109+ified. (dunno if their iLv will be 109 or if it'll be higher like how AF1 (50-60) - AF2 (71-75) - AF3 (80-89) used to be. Here's hoping Empy+3 is 119!

It will likely be 119 since RF(Reforged, RF if the term I use for the new version of our AF gear since we abbreviated Artifact as AF, and the new set is the Reforged Armor) will be getting upgraded next update, likely with the other 5 pages of the RemMems, to level 119. I assume the way they are doing it is RF being the only gear to make the stop at 109 because our original AF was stuff at 75. AF gear was at 52~56 and got upgraded to 75, Relic was 71~75 and got put up to 90, Empyrean was 81~89, never changed. I assume the large level gap between AF and the others stat wise, gave them the cause for making 2 stages to it, also, the others both had a total of 3 stages, NQ, +1, and +2, where as AF had only 2, NQ and +1. All in all, I think AF becoming RF, and furthermore RF+1, will be exclusive to it, and the others will simply start at 119.

This is mostly speculation though, the only confirmed part of any of this really is the fact that RF will be level 119 next update through some sort of upgrade process. Which also means everyone should get theirs now because it will be the best gear for your job most likely in a few different ways, since all ilevel gear with higher levels ends up with higher HP/MP/STR/DEX/VIT/AGI/INT/MND/CHR/DEF/EVA/MDEF/MEVA, generally.

[Mokeil]

Cool, thanks for the link. I'll be sure to dig into it! After I've had time to farm 100 or so of those new seal things...

[dasva]

Looks to me like probably still going to use skirmish peices for magical bp. Maybe some for the perp refresh too. Seems like most jobs got only a couple situational peices

[FaeQueenCory]

For comparrison:










Before the 109ification... pretty much the best you could do as a smn at the 99 cap was to full Af3 except the hands and possibly pants (at 75 there was a lot more variance... but everything was a LOT jankier).

The pants are up to the taste of the smn... though I am pretty sure the regen is STILL broken...

The reasons why these are better than any iLv gear (before the 109 AF) is because they maximize skill (more acc and Macc... meaning more dmg) and the cap the few things that need to be capped (perp and BPtimer) as well as giving an almost unparalleled MP pool boost.

There were a few other pieces that offer more skill... but at the cost of perp or MP or some other ability that made that gear (like Marduk Tiara) fall short of the empy set.

A good recent example of this is the Bokwus circlet.
It has less skill, but MAB+10 for the avatar... as well as stats for the SMN.
BUUUT it has no refresh... meaning that the SMNs who tried fulltiming it when it first came out found that their MP was starting to be an issue.
(refresh is rather important afterall)
So a piece that looks like it should be an upgrade... turns out to be just a macro-only piece.
This has been the "problem" with SMN and gear for AEONS.
And it seems, judging from 119 Nirvana and the 109AF1... (which has 0 of the tardedness that the original AF1 had... -enmity for avatars? yeah... cause THAT's how you play this job...)
It seems there's one (or more) SMN devs on the current team.

And even with the 109AF...
Only 2 of the pieces beat the empy pieces: the horn and the pigaches.
The loss of the blood boon proc is possibly negated by the +BPdmg% of the pigaches...
And the horn is just strictly better than the Caller's horn.
But the reason why the rest of the Convoker's set... kinda sucks... is that it offers boons to the smn at the cost of the Avatar.
Oh but the pants boost acc!
The empy pants and ngen seraweels both boost that... AND Macc.
The most important stat for SMN is the only stat it has: Summoning Magic Skill.
The only way to justify losing a HUGE loss of +10 or even +6... is from offering a boost that the derived stats would give.
Of which... none of the remaining 3 109AF offer.

EDIT:
Also, we currently have 3 sets of gear:
A -perp/idle set.
A +MAB/BPdmg set.
An "Alexander" set.
And judging from the crazy -BPtimer adjustments to the 109 AF1...
It looks like the 119 SMN sets... will eliminate the need for all three sets... (or more accurately, merge all 3 sets into a single full-time set)
Which would explain why Nirvana didn't get any -BPtimer...
Because...
The 119AFs look like they'll cap the BPtimer...
Meaning the Magian Staves... will actually be outdated!!
(though it then makes Nirvana the non-superfluous stat staff... Or I guess a lucky augmented Uffrat because it seems like perp won't require the full -8 from the staff slot...)

[FaeQueenCory]

The Skirmish body is not equivalent to the Bayld body... The skirmish body can have up to Avatar perpetuation -5 on it as well as the Refresh+2. That makes it an attractive idle piece even with your avatar out if you are looking for max refresh during perpetuation.

You had also mentioned needing the +70 mp in the ring slot as opposed to Fervor ring…. You can always macro in the ring after that MP is gone (max mp set). And if 70 MP is that important to you, I hope you are always using MP food on SMN...

The loss of 10 skill is a huge detriment to an avatar's acc.
Unlike the loss of 4 skill.
For simplicity's comparison, 2skill=1acc/Macc... It's actually a little less than that on average, more closer to 1.4ish skill = 1 acc/Macc.
But for the sake of comparison: Hagondes is shit.
While it CAN offer you more perp than the empy+2...
You loose far more than you gain.
Because aside from -perp and 2 more refresh... What you loose is far more valuable than the 2 mp refresh.
Sure, you can macro in the empy+2 body..... but last I checked... we don't play SMN the way SE originally thought we would... making the -5acc always a relevant thing to AA and increasing DPS overall.
It's actually more like 6 or 7 acc...
Unlike the 1acc loss from Fervor.
Which once you have over 500skill anyways... all your wards are already capped potency... and the only one who cares about 4 more skill at that stage is Alexander.

We want Hangondes to be more than an idle piece... because SMN never gets anything.
But let's face the facts. If you're idling with an Avatar out in Hagondes... you're DPS is gone to crap.
Especially against any Adoulin mob.
The only piece of Hagondes that could be fulltimed would be a lucky augmented boot.
But even then.... would you really want -perp on Hagondes boots? or would you rather get that fancy +25 more MAB?

As Babakeke pointed out forever ago: w/o an avatar, the 6mp from Hagondes is good... but you loose too much to make it worth anything to use when you have an avatar out.
But if you don't have an avatar out.... the ONLY thing Hagondes is giving you are the green numbers that SMN has been lacking before this 109AF, and the 2 more refresh.
Which either the bayld body or the delve body both do the same thing.
If you're sacrificing 10 skill for the same perp cost and 2 more MP /tic... more power to you.
But don't think that it's in any way shape or form comparably good.

And OMFG YES. -1acc for +70 MP for a Galka or an Elvaan SMN is well worth the trade off.
Why is 4 skill worth losing? Because I'm sitting at 500 skill already.
Especially because the only other benefit that Fervor gives you is like 1 or 2MAB for Ifrit... idr which it was.. but it was pathetically small... and is only for 1/11 avatars. And is made even more worthless with the massive MAB you get from Balsam and Hagondes pieces.
Now if we were talking about something like 10skill... hell no. For 10 skill, -70mp is a worthwhile trade for a Galka or Elvaan SMN.
Quit being racially insensitive. Not every race has nice base MP pools as 3/5 races do.
Even at 99, with full merits and everything, Galka and Elvaan MP is still small. (in other words, it's something we have to actually think about, unlike the other 3 races.)
And even for the other races... If there was a blood boon ring... do you think anyone would be wearing Fervor outside of Alexander? no. Because the pathetically small gain 4 skill gives is well worth the trade for more blood boon procing.
This is why the empy+2 pants and ngen seraweels are equal and solely based upon the taste of the smn.
And what's the skill difference?
4.
Why does this not matter for the pants? but you seem to think it matters for Fervor?
Because it really doesn't.
4 skill is nothing.
Maybe if you didn't have max skill and 8/8 summoning magic merits... you might think Fervor gave you something worthwhile...
But considering you ditch 10 skill just for the measly 2mp refresh (I'd understand if we weren't sitting at 4... but we have 4... without hardly trying... 6mp refresh is nice and all... but it's not like we aren't rolling in the refresh to begin with...) and the virtual same -perp?
That's a pretty big glass mansion you got there.
And such a lovely rock catapult in your foyer.

Fervor is the same as Summoning Earring.
Barely any skill gain nowadays.
And that's it.
No one is using Summoning Earring fulltime now because we have sooooo many better things in that slot. Gifted... Caller's... Moonshade... Heck, even Loquacious is giving you more with it's 30MP and 5%FC.
And Fervor is just the same.
Back in the 75 day... +3 and +4 skill was a noticeable bonus.... now? There are so many other options.
But at 99? No.
This is why AF3+2 = Ngen Seraweels.
Because a loss of 1acc/Macc is worth the trade off of all the other stats.