New "AF1"

[FaeQueenCory]

No really it fits for everything. Just because Skirmish gear is level 113 it doesn't make an X-hit all by itself. Just because my Skirmish gear is all 113 on my WHM does not mean it caps cure potency or has low enmity/cast time. More or less I assume it will be the best still because the stats we already had on them were generally better. The SMN set is already very nice from what I understand, putting it up to 119 only makes it better, if it already holds some of your best gear and its getting upgraded, its only reasonable to expect it to get better, and be potentially the best.

I am sure they will get a +1 version like everyone else.

This isn't as bad as you make it sound, more grind is what we need, no one is doing anything because everyone is finished with the content, that's why shouts have been dead for weeks. The game has been more lively on Phoenix in the last week than the previous month all together.
That's what I mean, your looking at the same gear as before but better, which means all of the old best Empyrean and Relic stuff will probably pop out on top again if they do it right. Though SMN is questionable due to the Skirmish gear I suppose.

Don't get your hopes up, most skill enhancements for AF went up by 2~5, not 10~20, so you could end up disappointing yourself needlessly.

You... are clearly not a SMN...
Because if you were... you'd know that the skirmish gear... while it's often good for the other mages (and why is you not capped potency with your skirmish body on whm??? there's so much cure potency every!)...
We've come to realize that Hagondes gear is just crap for smn outside of macroMAB. (though some ppl do idle in the body when they don't have an avatar... the Hagondes=lv100 bayld body in that case... both have +2mp refresh on the body.)
It's why we have become EXTRA squishy in combat... because we don't have all those green numbers all the other mages get.
SMN is the redheaded step child when it comes to gear.
We've gotten a bit of love from weapons recently.... but pretty much none of the iLv gear is worth anything once we poop an avatar out.

And as to what's good about the 109AF1...
It's pretty much only the boots and horn.
Why?
Because they beat the stats for the empy+2 pieces.
The body, hands, and legs... the lv"90" empy and relic hands are better in all those slots.
Even if the body has the same +BPdmg% as the caller's+2 does... the loss of 10skill is not worth the extra green numbers.
Because SMN doesn't gear for themselves... Good SMNs gear for their avatars.

And as to the +skill? Evoker Horn+1: +5 109Convoker: +15
Empy body +2 has +10
Relic hands have +15
Empy legs have +6
SMN has gotten major love for once...
And seeing as how with just: AF3-AF3-AF2-AF3-AF3, and the required misc gear... vox strap, evoker's ring, astute/99 cape etc
I'm sitting at just over 500 skill (and I'm not using Ifrit's ring because I'm Elvaan and need that +70MP more than the +4skill)
The max we can get currently is something like 540 or 550ish... idr...
So seeing as how the Af1+1 went from +5 to +15...
It's VERY likely that with all the appropriate "Alexander gear"...
600 is very likely.

And as to more grind... maybe I should take a trip to Phoenix... cause they're pretty much just as dead on Odin...
(though maybe you guys are just reaching Odin's current low rate... so... >_> we really need those mergers...)

[Demon6324236]

You... are clearly not a SMN...
Because if you were... you'd know that the skirmish gear... while it's often good for the other mages (and why is you not capped potency with your skirmish body on whm??? there's so much cure potency every!)...
We've come to realize that Hagondes gear is just crap for smn outside of macroMAB. (though some ppl do idle in the body when they don't have an avatar... the Hagondes=lv100 bayld body in that case... both have +2mp refresh on the body.)
It's why we have become EXTRA squishy in combat... because we don't have all those green numbers all the other mages get.
SMN is the redheaded step child when it comes to gear.
We've gotten a bit of love from weapons recently.... but pretty much none of the iLv gear is worth anything once we poop an avatar out.

I admit, I'm not, really, I am just talking about AF stuff in general. So far as the cure potency thing my point is there are no jobs which can use just 1 set and do great, WHM needs +2 Body/Legs for instance, old pre-SoA gear that's still on top, basically saying it takes as much thought for other jobs when gearing as it does for SMN, you cant just throw on 119 gear and run out the door.

And as to more grind... maybe I should take a trip to Phoenix... cause they're pretty much just as dead on Odin...
(though maybe you guys are just reaching Odin's current low rate... so... >_> we really need those mergers...)

Phoenix isn't all to lively outside of WKs right now where you find 100~150 in any WK but Kamihr, which has 200~300 a fight.

[FaeQueenCory]

For comparrison:










Before the 109ification... pretty much the best you could do as a smn at the 99 cap was to full Af3 except the hands and possibly pants (at 75 there was a lot more variance... but everything was a LOT jankier).

The pants are up to the taste of the smn... though I am pretty sure the regen is STILL broken...

The reasons why these are better than any iLv gear (before the 109 AF) is because they maximize skill (more acc and Macc... meaning more dmg) and the cap the few things that need to be capped (perp and BPtimer) as well as giving an almost unparalleled MP pool boost.

There were a few other pieces that offer more skill... but at the cost of perp or MP or some other ability that made that gear (like Marduk Tiara) fall short of the empy set.

A good recent example of this is the Bokwus circlet.
It has less skill, but MAB+10 for the avatar... as well as stats for the SMN.
BUUUT it has no refresh... meaning that the SMNs who tried fulltiming it when it first came out found that their MP was starting to be an issue.
(refresh is rather important afterall)
So a piece that looks like it should be an upgrade... turns out to be just a macro-only piece.
This has been the "problem" with SMN and gear for AEONS.
And it seems, judging from 119 Nirvana and the 109AF1... (which has 0 of the tardedness that the original AF1 had... -enmity for avatars? yeah... cause THAT's how you play this job...)
It seems there's one (or more) SMN devs on the current team.

And even with the 109AF...
Only 2 of the pieces beat the empy pieces: the horn and the pigaches.
The loss of the blood boon proc is possibly negated by the +BPdmg% of the pigaches...
And the horn is just strictly better than the Caller's horn.
But the reason why the rest of the Convoker's set... kinda sucks... is that it offers boons to the smn at the cost of the Avatar.
Oh but the pants boost acc!
The empy pants and ngen seraweels both boost that... AND Macc.
The most important stat for SMN is the only stat it has: Summoning Magic Skill.
The only way to justify losing a HUGE loss of +10 or even +6... is from offering a boost that the derived stats would give.
Of which... none of the remaining 3 109AF offer.

EDIT:
Also, we currently have 3 sets of gear:
A -perp/idle set.
A +MAB/BPdmg set.
An "Alexander" set.
And judging from the crazy -BPtimer adjustments to the 109 AF1...
It looks like the 119 SMN sets... will eliminate the need for all three sets... (or more accurately, merge all 3 sets into a single full-time set)
Which would explain why Nirvana didn't get any -BPtimer...
Because...
The 119AFs look like they'll cap the BPtimer...
Meaning the Magian Staves... will actually be outdated!!
(though it then makes Nirvana the non-superfluous stat staff... Or I guess a lucky augmented Uffrat because it seems like perp won't require the full -8 from the staff slot...)

[Annalise]

You... are clearly not a SMN...
Because if you were... you'd know that the skirmish gear... while it's often good for the other mages (and why is you not capped potency with your skirmish body on whm??? there's so much cure potency every!)...
We've come to realize that Hagondes gear is just crap for smn outside of macroMAB. (though some ppl do idle in the body when they don't have an avatar... the Hagondes=lv100 bayld body in that case... both have +2mp refresh on the body.)

The Skirmish body is not equivalent to the Bayld body... The skirmish body can have up to Avatar perpetuation -5 on it as well as the Refresh+2. That makes it an attractive idle piece even with your avatar out if you are looking for max refresh during perpetuation.

You had also mentioned needing the +70 mp in the ring slot as opposed to Fervor ring…. You can always macro in the ring after that MP is gone (max mp set). And if 70 MP is that important to you, I hope you are always using MP food on SMN...

[FaeQueenCory]

The Skirmish body is not equivalent to the Bayld body... The skirmish body can have up to Avatar perpetuation -5 on it as well as the Refresh+2. That makes it an attractive idle piece even with your avatar out if you are looking for max refresh during perpetuation.

You had also mentioned needing the +70 mp in the ring slot as opposed to Fervor ring…. You can always macro in the ring after that MP is gone (max mp set). And if 70 MP is that important to you, I hope you are always using MP food on SMN...

The loss of 10 skill is a huge detriment to an avatar's acc.
Unlike the loss of 4 skill.
For simplicity's comparison, 2skill=1acc/Macc... It's actually a little less than that on average, more closer to 1.4ish skill = 1 acc/Macc.
But for the sake of comparison: Hagondes is shit.
While it CAN offer you more perp than the empy+2...
You loose far more than you gain.
Because aside from -perp and 2 more refresh... What you loose is far more valuable than the 2 mp refresh.
Sure, you can macro in the empy+2 body..... but last I checked... we don't play SMN the way SE originally thought we would... making the -5acc always a relevant thing to AA and increasing DPS overall.
It's actually more like 6 or 7 acc...
Unlike the 1acc loss from Fervor.
Which once you have over 500skill anyways... all your wards are already capped potency... and the only one who cares about 4 more skill at that stage is Alexander.

We want Hangondes to be more than an idle piece... because SMN never gets anything.
But let's face the facts. If you're idling with an Avatar out in Hagondes... you're DPS is gone to crap.
Especially against any Adoulin mob.
The only piece of Hagondes that could be fulltimed would be a lucky augmented boot.
But even then.... would you really want -perp on Hagondes boots? or would you rather get that fancy +25 more MAB?

As Babakeke pointed out forever ago: w/o an avatar, the 6mp from Hagondes is good... but you loose too much to make it worth anything to use when you have an avatar out.
But if you don't have an avatar out.... the ONLY thing Hagondes is giving you are the green numbers that SMN has been lacking before this 109AF, and the 2 more refresh.
Which either the bayld body or the delve body both do the same thing.
If you're sacrificing 10 skill for the same perp cost and 2 more MP /tic... more power to you.
But don't think that it's in any way shape or form comparably good.

And OMFG YES. -1acc for +70 MP for a Galka or an Elvaan SMN is well worth the trade off.
Why is 4 skill worth losing? Because I'm sitting at 500 skill already.
Especially because the only other benefit that Fervor gives you is like 1 or 2MAB for Ifrit... idr which it was.. but it was pathetically small... and is only for 1/11 avatars. And is made even more worthless with the massive MAB you get from Balsam and Hagondes pieces.
Now if we were talking about something like 10skill... hell no. For 10 skill, -70mp is a worthwhile trade for a Galka or Elvaan SMN.
Quit being racially insensitive. Not every race has nice base MP pools as 3/5 races do.
Even at 99, with full merits and everything, Galka and Elvaan MP is still small. (in other words, it's something we have to actually think about, unlike the other 3 races.)
And even for the other races... If there was a blood boon ring... do you think anyone would be wearing Fervor outside of Alexander? no. Because the pathetically small gain 4 skill gives is well worth the trade for more blood boon procing.
This is why the empy+2 pants and ngen seraweels are equal and solely based upon the taste of the smn.
And what's the skill difference?
4.
Why does this not matter for the pants? but you seem to think it matters for Fervor?
Because it really doesn't.
4 skill is nothing.
Maybe if you didn't have max skill and 8/8 summoning magic merits... you might think Fervor gave you something worthwhile...
But considering you ditch 10 skill just for the measly 2mp refresh (I'd understand if we weren't sitting at 4... but we have 4... without hardly trying... 6mp refresh is nice and all... but it's not like we aren't rolling in the refresh to begin with...) and the virtual same -perp?
That's a pretty big glass mansion you got there.
And such a lovely rock catapult in your foyer.

Fervor is the same as Summoning Earring.
Barely any skill gain nowadays.
And that's it.
No one is using Summoning Earring fulltime now because we have sooooo many better things in that slot. Gifted... Caller's... Moonshade... Heck, even Loquacious is giving you more with it's 30MP and 5%FC.
And Fervor is just the same.
Back in the 75 day... +3 and +4 skill was a noticeable bonus.... now? There are so many other options.
But at 99? No.
This is why AF3+2 = Ngen Seraweels.
Because a loss of 1acc/Macc is worth the trade off of all the other stats.

[Annalise]

Once again you don't know what you are talking about.

Yes, there is macroing. I use A LOT of macroing on Summoner. We are talking about Hagondes as an IDLE piece. The 10 summoning skill on Caller's +2 does absolutely nothing for avatar accuracy during auto-attack. Bloodpact: rage, bloodpact: ward, yes. Auto-attack, no.

And racially insensitive? Elvaan has 100 MP less than my hume. I don't bother eating food on SMN. If you ate MP food we'd be on par. You should stop being racially ignorant.

I won't bother going into more because you seem so misguided about summoner.