Nirvana, Nirvana, Nirvana!

[FaeQueenCory]

(You better have read that as Jan.)

So only about a week away... and REMs become relevant again.

I for one am super happy about it... because now more ppl can... do delve... together. (we really need a better endgame thing than Delve... cause it has 0 longevity and... it's just not fun like SKY or Dynamis or SEA is...)

But here's something that I'm curious about what you other smns hope/want/wish for in Nirvana.

Currently it looks like this:



So it's safe to assume that the "fake" skill will be greater than
And we can also assume that the MAB will be greater than... 121... >_>
Because Astralwatcher is only 118 and Nirvana will be 119.
Dear God in Heaven.... it could even be something as ridiculous as 200.... >_>

BUT.... What I'm wondering about is the other stats.
Namely the -perp.
Personally I REALLY don't see a need to make it greater than the -8 it already has.
Any more and you start to get redundant from the rest of the gear you're wearing. (looking at you empy set +2)

So I hope that instead of something silly like -18perp... cause... we really need that...
I hope that it gets -12~15BPtimer.

Nirvana is supposed to be the ultimate SMN staff... and it was superbly designed back in the day to fulfill that role.
However.... currently... it's almost a macro-only piece.
(I say almost because it's up to the SMN to decide how to cap that BP timer, I prefer the magian stave and smn bracers +2, since that's two slots. BUT having more -BPtimer gear swap in and out while holding Nirvana is also a perfectly valid option too. And even better for soloing, since you don't have to worry about your TP.)

BUT.... if they were to add -12~15BPtimer to Nirvana... Then it really WOULD be "chatoyant" of the Magian staves.
It used to be before the 90 cap...
Because then, the magian staves just offered -perp. Only the 90-99 offer -BPtimer.

And since I'm 99% sure that all the mythics will be losing that +acc in favor for the acc bonus from the fake skill....
There's a data slot open for -BP.

Obviously it's a bit too late to offer this as a real suggestion to the devs... but considering that it was only the other day that Matsui gave us the iLv of the REMs...
We have nothing to go on to know if they are doing anything other than "doubling numbers"...

So what do you smns hope Nirvana will become?

[FaeQueenCory]

Bluh.
Here's what BG has for the new Nirvana....

DMG:200 Delay:402
Accuracy+30
Magic Damage+217
Staff skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +255
Avatar perpetuation cost -8
Avatar: Lv+2 Increases "Blood Pact" damage
"Garland of Bliss" Aftermath (Incl. Avatars): Increases Accuracy and Attack Occasionally attacks twice or thrice
{Afterglow}

So.... Um... yeah...
Hopefully the Mdmg is... for magical BPs.... even though I'm 90% sure it's not... cause... /sch drain?
And while the +lv is... really nice seeing that the other pets (except pup) can exceed 113...
Would have been a lot better as +6 so 119 bluh bluh bluh...
But 115 should be better than 113.... (even though the diff between 106 and 113 avatars were... barely noticeable... to say the least...)

I REALLY hope that +%dmg (as is usually the case with "increases BP dmg" effects) is more than 10%... I'd be really surprised if it was 40% (original Nirvana had +40MAB... and that's basically "+40%" for magic BPs)
...
>_>
bleh.
At least they didn't waste our time with more than -8perp...

What do the rest of you think of this?
Will need to test it and all that... but just from the words...
I am disappoint.

[Annalise]

Bluh.
Here's what BG has for the new Nirvana....


So.... Um... yeah...
Hopefully the Mdmg is... for magical BPs.... even though I'm 90% sure it's not... cause... /sch drain?
And while the +lv is... really nice seeing that the other pets (except pup) can exceed 113...
Would have been a lot better as +6 so 119 bluh bluh bluh...
But 115 should be better than 113.... (even though the diff between 106 and 113 avatars were... barely noticeable... to say the least...)

I REALLY hope that +%dmg (as is usually the case with "increases BP dmg" effects) is more than 10%... I'd be really surprised if it was 40% (original Nirvana had +40MAB... and that's basically "+40%" for magic BPs)
...
>_>
bleh.
At least they didn't waste our time with more than -8perp...

What do the rest of you think of this?
Will need to test it and all that... but just from the words...
I am disappoint.

Rework your numbers. MAB+40 is far not +40% magic damage for magical bloodpacts. If you have +50 MAB in traits (Avatar has base +40 MAB at 99) and gear, +40 MAB is only going to be ~26-27% damage increase.
With 100 MAB, +40 MAB will be a 20% increase in damage.
Increases bloodpact damage +40% would be a raw 40% increase.

The new Skirmish gear has ridiculous amounts of MAB on it, so Nirvana has a bit less of an impact than before with skirmish gear.

Having a high +bloodpact damage is not only going to do more for your magical bloodpacts (and scales better with MAB gear) but it will also help your physical bloodpacts as well. That's pretty huge in my opinion.

[FaeQueenCory]

Rework your numbers. MAB+40 is far not +40% magic damage for magical bloodpacts. If you have +50 MAB in traits (Avatar has base +40 MAB at 99) and gear, +40 MAB is only going to be ~26-27% damage increase.
With 100 MAB, +40 MAB will be a 20% increase in damage.
Increases bloodpact damage +40% would be a raw 40% increase.

The new Skirmish gear has ridiculous amounts of MAB on it, so Nirvana has a bit less of an impact than before with skirmish gear.

Having a high +bloodpact damage is not only going to do more for your magical bloodpacts (and scales better with MAB gear) but it will also help your physical bloodpacts as well. That's pretty huge in my opinion.

*facepalm*

MAB is part of the MAB/MDEF ratio for magical damage...
And while it isn't a straight +40%, 40MAB can be anywhere from a 0% increase in dmg to a 200% increase... all depending on what the mob's MDEF is.
(also, we don't actually know that Avatar's have 40MAB at 99... we just say they do because we decided way back in 05 that they are BLMs... even though it's more likely they are their own thing and not subject to the same jobtraits we are... for all we know, they could have 80MAB at 99. And then we get into iLv avatars where they have +35/70 to every stat and a base +acc/Racc/Macc/ATK/RATK/MAB... And we don't have the numbers for that iLv gain either.)
And considering how +120MAB is pumping out a rough +70ish% dmg... at least from my experience... (1500dmg MBPs will be about 2500dmg)
Yeah.
MAB is a horribly convoluted messed up stat to calculate.
All magic stats are.
This is why even now people still hold that 2INT=1MAB... even though the two stats have nothing to do with each other. (they are independent, not derived like acc from DEX or atk from STR)
Because for quick comparisons... it's good enough to get some grasp at what a change in gear will do for you.

Further, 40MAB can indeed be a straight +40% dmg.... however it required very specific conditions.

And now for some statistics/discreet mathematics lesson: MAB has a diminishing return to it because it's a change to a multiplier fractal. Keeping the denominator (MDEF) the same, results in potentially a straight % gain... but that's also assuming MDEF=1.
Again, using Balsam: +120MAB with a base MAB of 30 is going to receive less of an increase in damage than a base MAB of 0 would.
With a base MAB of 0 even gaining more than a 2x dmg increase... again, given the right circumstances.

Why I said 40MAB is a rough +40%dmg is because that's what the spirit of it is.
This also simplifies the comparison between the 99 and 119 versions of Nirvana.

Furthermore, the +2iLv means that there's a "hidden" +MAB (as well as +acc/Racc/Macc/ATK/RATK... as well as... 10? bonus to the avatar's stat line... +70 with +14Lv, so that's 5/lv... so a +2Lv is +10 stats?) to the 119 Nirvana as well.
How much MAB that is however.... Who knows. We don't even know the +MAB from the +14Lv Dashavatara Sachet gives. All we know there is +70 to each stat.

And I am not making the argument that +%BPdmg is in some way worse than +MAB...
But the original staff increased magical BP dmg.
The 119 increases both.
I was trying to gauge by how much would make the 119 increase magic BPs by the same/similar amount as the 99 does. (if not more, cause it IS 20Lvs higher.)
Obviously increasing both phys and magic BPs is better.
But that's not even close to what I'm talking about.

You can't compare how much 99 Nivana increased phys BP dmg... because it didn't do that.
You can only compare the Mdmg increase and then say if the same increase to phys BPs is worth a potential trade down.
And for all we know, those +2Lvs might even give a +40MAB to the avatar... making this just a strictly 1000% better upgrade without any drawbacks.




And as for Hagondes: Yes.
Dear God.... the magical BP damage that is the potential here from all those +25MAB augs and +50MAB on the boots.... (+25+25A)
Then +%BPdmg from Nirvana and the rest of the SMN's gear....
That's so sexy.


But there is also one more reason for comparison to only magical BPs (aside from the obvious that this will most likely be the best phys BP staff in the game): Balsam/Astralwatcher.
Both of these give +120MAB.
Both of these are iLv117 and 118.
And looking at the comparison to Laevateinn and Tupsimati and Atinians...
It's highly likely that Nirvana will be giving a similar if not massively greater bonus... just for being 1-2iLvs higher. (compare Atinians' +195/205Mdmg and +25/26MAB to the +248Mdmg and +60/40MAB)

[Annalise]

You're facepalming me? Really? You clearly don't understand how magic damage works.

First of all, they can and have calculated both avatar magic attack bonus as well as intelligence. They have discovered a lot of things that you clearly aren't aware of.

And if an avatar has +100 MAB total, adding +40 MAB is going to be a 20% damage increase. As you said, MAB is multiplication. There is this other cool thing called division that you can use to show how much of an increase it is. 2.4 / 2.0 = 1.2 or 120% damage.

You are very misguided if you think that MAB +40 will ever be +200% damage. You have no idea what you are taking about You should learn how MAB is calculated with MDB.