FFXI R/M/E Thoughts:

[Keeley]

I think that some of you have underestimated how many fiends play this game. Long gone are the days where players are willing to accept that this game is 'real life'. Content that was created a decade ago should not still be relevant today! Things change, move on! If REM's come even close to fracture weapons, you will see only REM's for shouts. Anyone with a fracture or crafted weapon will be fail, and you will be left out.

Let's think about this. Relic weapons have a hidden affect that add 2-3 times the damage to regular hits that proc 13% of the time or greater. All relics have an added affect which proc at a decent rate. Most of them have as good or better weapon skills than the ones in which you can unlock by merits. Most have either a significant accuracy or attack boost. So, now SE is going to boost the base damage to match fracture weapons AND super boost their attack and accuracy too to stay competitive?! Yes, it will be REM only and if you do not have one maxed out you will be excluded from events and told to go home. Not only that, but it will kill new content and make old content even more boring than it already is.

What will we get to look forward to? We get to fight over mobs in crowded dynamis areas again! We get to fight RMT's hoarding Abby mobs! We get to spend hours spamming an instanced area because it is full! What FFXI needs is new content, not revamps of outdated equipment.

[Demon6324236]

Yes, there are tons of people with level 99 Empyrean or Mythic weapons, except there isn't, Relic weapons are the only common 99s, at best, which means that it would likely be Delve Boss Weapons, and Relics, that are primarily asked for.

Besides that, your talking about killing all of the new content? No, why? Simple, armor, accessories, everything besides weapons that they drop. Weapons are a single thing, most jobs only need 1~2 of them and nothing more, in the case of my MNK I needed Oats, do I have any need for any other H2H in the game for my MNK? No, none, they are the only ones, so I will not bother with the others, simple as that. Give me Relic H2H, and it will be the same, I will get the top H2H, nothing more. Does that mean once I have Oats all content dies? No, Skirmish and Delve as well as WKs have a ton of armor to obtain, much of which has its own uses for different things, and for that reason, keeps the content alive.

Even if they update RMEs, WoEs, and Magians, basically eliminating every weapon from Adoulin as viable choices, Adoulin gear, as in Armor/Accessories, would be more than enough to keep the content alive & active.

[Keeley]

Yes, it will kill all content. Here is why and how it happens. Most of the people who accomplish things on this game effectively, and I am talking about more difficult content, are the fiends. They are the people who live on this game. They will have the 99 REM's or w/e is the current trend. They will only accept people that are geared like them. Here is how the cycle works. New content is released. They spend every waking moment rushing through it. They finish it. They become bored and cry. New content released. Cycle repeats. Getting a REM quickly is nothing to them. They will speed through it or buy it with money.

Unfortunately, most of the population are not fiends. They are people who have things to do outside FFXI. Since they cannot keep pace with the fiends, they fall behind and then eventually get left behind. We eventually end up where we are now. All the good players have everything and all the players that are decent or horrid, cannot seem to accomplish much. With at least fracture weapons being competitive it keeps the gap between these problems minimal. It also compounds the problem that if you do not have said weapon for said job, you are stuck on a job you do not like. Then you start to see the failure problems we see today.

As long as SE does not add weapon skill +, parry +, and guard + to REM's, then there may be a chance. If they do, then they will break the game and they may as well just let us do whatever we want and stop charging us a fee.

[Shaiera]

I have to ask how 99 R/M/E can be considered “Content that was created a decade ago”. It is true Dynamis, as an example, has been out for many years, however; we’re not talking about level 75 Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean. We’re talking about the level 99 R/M/E; the ones that were very new and relevant. It was well after level cap increases that they became available, and even after that, the weapons were able to be obtained but it wasn’t like SoA where it was done in a week or two. If a player took 9-12 months to create one of these weapons, that doesn’t make it old content. That’s how the challenge was geared to be - a time consuming challenge, Relic and Empyrean. I don’t even need to get into the time it takes to make a Mythic.

It was really exciting that after raising the level cap these once ultimate weapons, the 75 versions, had become junk, then Development stepped up and decided lets keep them; lets allow them to be upgraded to 99. What through a lot of us off and got us irritated is having those new ultimate weapons to go for and then put in months of farming and grinding to have any one of these amazing “new” ultimate weapons, to then have them toss out an expansion, making them obsolete and bested with only a two week effort of playing. We’re not talking just slightly bested; we’re talking monstrously better stats.

I still have to say, if a person can’t see how that’s unfair to the people that have earned and invested the time and effort into making a 99 R/M/E, which was “current” content, they did not earn one. If they had, they’d look back at the many months and hours they put into make it and think, “Wow, I spent months into making this and people are getting weapons, better weapons, that are monstrously better and in only a few days, this is bull-shit!”

At least that’s how I was feeling; I got to enjoy mine for a whole two weeks before it was turned into a wiffle-bat, I had set my sights on it many months prior; it was a huge disappointment, it’s hard not to feel cheated and let down. I do have some hope left; I’m waiting to see what this Nov. update will bring us.

[Metaking]

well here is the thing rem only shouts wont happen again maby relic only but that's only for like drk, assuming relics before add effect hidden proc and special ability have the same dps as delve weapons and emps will have slightly less than that and mythics a little lower still(after maths would supposedly make up the difference but without the ability to rapidly get 300% tp all the time will neuter some of them), but when you consider you will be able to use emp weaponskills with ANY weapon of the class emps will easily lag behind the relics and in some cases there delve counterpart to (looking at you gk). Mythics even with there lower dps will still win for pure utility, but given there rarity no big deal. And before anyone says it, making a relic is super easy now i can go into dynamis on blu and get 300-400 currency a run with a little luck, and lets not even get on how much of a joke adl is now, hell wish se would let blu on excal and dnc on mandu so i could make up my mind on what to do with my currency >.</

o and ps remember when trying to use relics X dmg as an example of why there better that its only first hit no X attack ,which most dds are packing in spades now a days but yes it is 13% o almost forgot on hand to hand weapons its only first fist which means a good mnk thf nin ext only sees that like 3-4% of there attacks
[13/2= 6.5(R) 4(Q)/100=4 8(T)/96=7.62 20(D)/88.35=17.67

12+15.24+17.67+100 =144.9

6.5/144.9 = 0.044~ = 4% forgive this scrap math no paper and cant do it in my head <.<]

[Tptn937]

Half way through the month, and still no update on REM update. If they still can't manage to get Relic or Empyrean staff down I'll be beyond annoyed since they seemed to figure it out for Adoulin content. If BLM mythic gets some sort of melee upgrade I'm definitely done with this game.

[RabidInfant]

There are lots of things I am unsure about regarding the REM update. I imagine a lot of us are mostly second guessing, the uncertainty is driving me insane quite frankly.

Please forgive me if any of what I type is innacurate but it is based on what I have read (rightly or wrongly) on various other FFXI sites or tried to make sense of from what SE might have hinted towards...

Here are some of the many questions I have, no idea if they have answers yet.

What about REM owners, it was rumoured that only level 99 REM's will get a 'boost'? what about the hundreds (even thousands) of people on all servers who may have REM's below level 99... do they get left out here? the same people who are hoping this update brings them some good news that their hard earned weapons will once again be acceptable, or will this update stab them once more?

As an Empy owner looking to finish their weapon to 99 I have to ask 'What about heavy metal plates?' is the figure staying at 1500 and if so will we see HMP drop elsewhere and more commonly? at least giving us a realistic chance to get our weapons to 99.... we don't want it given to us, not like delve weapons have been, we want to earn our weapons and for them to be special and something useful and to be proud of, but please please give us a chance, a realistic chance to finish them.

So many questions, for which I apologise.

Rabid.

[Alpheus]

To your questions Rabid:

1. 99 WoE weapons were name dropped as being a requirement for unlocking the Empy WS for use on other weapons but a logical holdout would be lvl 85-90 Empy Weapons also unlocking it.

2. REMs across the board will only be buffed at lvl 99 and be granted item levels and all the attributes item levels bring along with proportionate boosts to their damage ratings and I assume; any base stat increases on the 99 Empy Weapons however I personally believe they will finally add WS DMG+X% as a hidden boost for genuine 99 Empyrean Weapons since it is the only class of legendary to not have that stat, and once you can unlock the Empy WS via other means the genuine weapons need a compelling case to be used and this is probably the only thing they can get.

3. In regards to HMPs no adjustment has ever been hinted at as far as obtaining HMPs and fulfilling the 1500 you need. The only adjustment to Empy acquisition that was even floated by the Dev team was during the high point of the REM outrage once Delve content went live and it hinted at streamlining the trials that precede the Empy Weapon being given it's proper name/branching off into the WoE path*. It was mentioned along with unlocking Relic Weaponskills and that itself dropped off rather quickly never to be repeated by the Dev Team.

* = Essentially the NM camping trials.

[FaeQueenCory]

2. REMs across the board will only be buffed at lvl 99 and be granted item levels and all the attributes item levels bring along with proportionate boosts to their damage ratings and I assume; any base stat increases on the 99 Empy Weapons however I personally believe they will finally add WS DMG+X% as a hidden boost for genuine 99 Empyrean Weapons since it is the only class of legendary to not have that stat, and once you can unlock the Empy WS via other means the genuine weapons need a compelling case to be used and this is probably the only thing they can get.

I have to point out that we only assume that they will be given iLvs.
The only actual word on it was that they would have their damage boosted to comparable levels of Delve weapons.

And as such, not all the 119 weapons either. Only Mythics will have that boost to being 119 level in damage.
Relics and Empys will only receive a boost to match the augmented delve weapon drops: ie 113.
And I guess that matches Skirmish+1s as well.

But all we can say at the moment is that they will have the damage of these weapons... Hopefully they will actually have iLvs... because just having the dmg will still make them crap.

And I know ppl want their Relics and Empys to be the same tier as Mythic and Delve Mega Boss drops.... but I have to agree with Matsui's stated tiering.
Relics and Empy are soooooooooo friggen easy to make. Especially empys. They do not require the rigors of Mythics or even the harshness of getting a Delve win. (I know ppl can do it, but it's not like everyone can. BUT everyone CAN skirmish and skirmish2 AND they can make Relics and Empys with the only effort being time... or money if you're rich in the case of Relics.)

I would like to think that the Dev team has the know-with-all to realize that just upping the base damage still makes the REMs worthless....
But then these are the ppl that didn't think that making the REMs worthless would be a big deal to begin with... so...
50/50

I especially hope for the case with Macc.... and maybe with this update... Claustrum might actually be decent enough to not be just a vanity relic. (iLv = "fake" skill bonus = +Macc = Claustrum having mage stats!!)

Oh! And what would just be icing on the cake... Making them add the jobs that they really should have been added to once those job started existing.
Ever been on DNC and wanted to use your fancy 99 Mandau? Too bad!
RUN and GEO have 0 REMs? Not any more! Now GEO's on Mjollnr and RUN's on Ragnarok!!!
I pray to all Divinities that this happens.... Adding the jobs that should have always been added to the Relics... That should have been a day1 thing.



And as to Keeley's Chicken Little routine....
No. Boosting REMs to the delve level will make MORE ppl be able to do stuff. And returning players will actually be able to do things well.
Let's just look at MNKs for a moment.
Now all they have is Oats. Everyone has Oats.
BUT with the REM update... they can come to the Delve fracture runs with their REM. And be no more jank than the monk with the rank 15 delve 113 h2h.
Unless they have the mythic... then they'd be on par with the Oat MNKs.
And that's a good thing. It means more ppl can do the event meaning more options meaning more variance meaning more appeal.
The worst you'll see is a shout asking for "Delve <<Mega Boss>> Mythic DD only."
But in all likelihood what you'll see is "DREMS DD only," Delve-Relic-Empyrean-Mythic-Skirmish+1. (the skirmish+1 have the potential to be serviceable... and as such will only ever be a bottom to the other four... Much in the same way that an Oats is preferred to a rank15 113 h2h.)

[Metaking]

@FaeQueenCory
you realize excluding toj himself no one will bring a non oat mnk to a delve run the difference in dmg is massive between those 2 weapons also doesn't help that its easy enough to get an oat mnk to replace said non oat mnk they are soooooooooo friggen easy to get and generaly go free lot and sometimes hit the ground ^^. (i mean seriously i had a run Fup the matama twice and we still had enough time to kill the thunder lizard >.>