Why are bst pets getting shafted?

[dasva]

Seriously pup gets altenator which is waaaaaaaaay more powerful than lvling up jugs with axe and now smn is getting +120 mab on staff 25 or more on several peices of armor while bst gets like 20 pet att (when att does hardly anything on pets anyways). You can litterally get a good +250 pet mab on smn now basically double to tripling their magic dmg not even accounting the delve ammos effects. Where is the gear to up jugs dmg that much? I see both smn and pups litterally killing things with there pets faster then 3 bsts combined.

And this doesn't even begin to cover the fact we have to merit to get ours lvld up while other jobs don't. Or the lack of availability of ingredients for new jugs. Or that for delve jug is horribly unrealistically costed. 2k plasm to bring a pet out once is like making automatoms have a 5% chance to self destruct and destroy the alternator anytime it dies or you send it away or you zone or you die

[FaeQueenCory]

WHAT? SMN is getting.... GEAR!? Unacceptable.
We better nerf the hell out of smn so that it stays in its place of not being played.

It kinda sounds like you're just complaining about having to work for your bst pets... "Oh no! I have to put merits in stuff to be good!"
Yeah... cause smn doesn't dump merits in MAB to get those "cost efficient" BPs to deal dmg.
Or have to lose an item slot (and thus any benefits to the smn) just to have the avatars be brought to the level of anyone with a >99 weapon.
Your pet is powered by the level of your main hand gear. So get something with an iLv and quit your complaining.
Which will also make you more powerful... cause... you get buffed from it too. Unlike smns and pups.

The only legit thing you have to complain bout is the price of your jug pets. 2k plasm is a bit unreasonable.

[dasva]

I don't think nerfing is the answer just ya know give gear to everyone lol. Plus since when has bst every been used outside of soloing which due the the relative lack of upgrades it's been getting compared to other jobs isn't going to be happening on anything newish

As far as merits no you don't have to merit those. Physical ones aren't bad and it doesn't make the pet itself weaker not meriting it like it does for bst. Nor do you need to make and augment some af2+2 just to get your pet to the lvl of your ilvl ammo. Forget the fact that we actually have other merits that are useful. And I know how the ilvl system works thank you I have ilvl weapons at the same lvl as smn can get and there is still this discrepency. And you mean to deal more dmg not to make them useale.

And my complaint was that even with merits which no you don't have to do AND ilvl weapon they still aren't good. While I'm wathcing a smn deal AOE 2k dmg Thundersparks my jug can't even hit the mobs.

Also your item parrallel is fail. It makes you use that item instead of others. Putting it on the weapon limits you not makes you stronger. How would you like your pet to delvl everytime you put on perp staff? Or pdt etc. Putting it in an ammo slot is alot more useful than on weapon.

And you still haven't begin to address smns getting around 200 extra pet mab over the last couple of updates while bst got what 20 pet att lol.

You sound like someone who has never ever even seen a jug pet in action since they added ilvl and/or a smn who doesn't want any pet competetion at all and will just pull stuff out of his ass to justify the huge unbalanced amount of upgrades the pet jobs have been getting. Someone that thinks it's funny that one pet can 1-2 shot ITs like that while another will sit there and watch there pet wiff endlessly till it dies a little later and then lie so no one relizes how far apart they are

[Leonardus]

SE, please remember to add augments for Beastmaster pets on future augmentable armor sets.

For example, the Iuitl armor set from Skirmish II. I see no BST pet augments, yet that was the set we were placed on. Summoner on the other hand, can augment their Skirmish II armor to boost their avatars, so what's going on, here?

If "Recycle" and "Snapshot" can be a possible random augment, so could "Enhances Reward" or "Stout Servant +1." Currently, it feels like BST is added to melee armor as an afterthought- As a BST I get stuck with ranged attack and ranged accuracy augments...

[SpankWustler]

If the often arbitrary level caps on jug pets were drastically increased or even removed, and Beast Affinity made to function more like Fine-tuning or Optimization, that would make things a lot easier on Beastmaster.

Not only does the "level cap by pet" system limit a Kerehcatl-wielding Beastmaster to two seemingly identical crabs or a grasshopper, it also makes it impossible to simultaneously choose the correct pet for Killer Instinct and use a worthwhile pet. Killer Instinct and damage are the only things a Beastmaster can contribute in a group environment, so even a small portion of Beastmaster's Damage being in direct conflict with Killer Instinct is a pretty big issue.

[Mokeil]

And you still haven't begin to address smns getting around 200 extra pet mab over the last couple of updates while bst got what 20 pet att lol.

You sound like someone who has never ever even seen a jug pet in action since they added ilvl and/or a smn who doesn't want any pet competetion at all...

As for specifically the imbalance of Pet:MAB to Pet:Attack? I can only guess that it is due to the fact that Pet:MAB only helps SMN for one hit every 45 seconds, whereas Pet:Attack helps BST with every auto-attack hit your pet makes.

Also, to be fair on the Summoner side of things, you are assuming not only the very best staff - obtained from the (theoretically) current hardest event - but also in getting extremely lucky with the Augment Roulette on the new skirmish gear. So, in other words: You are assuming the best possible everything for SMN. That is not a set the average player can pull off without a lot of effort. (I'd also argue that winning the Augment Roulette multiple times is far more of a pain than augmenting some AF+2, but I have a preference for static progression you can see versus just getting lucky. Anyone else's mileage may vary.)

Now, I will freely admit I haven't payed much attention to BST since iLevel came along, but I know before-hand SMN and BST sort of balanced out in the end - better spike damage versus better DoT, disposability versus survivability, etc... That said, having assumed the very best gear set possible for SMN I don't think it's too far outside the realm of reasonable to ask how BST performs with its very best gear set possible. So, again, assuming the very best for BST, how do they really stack up?

This is an honest and sincere question - no joking or bashing BST, no "haha SMN is better", no "oh, but SMN has it worse and here's why"... We've both got highly systemic problems with some most of our core job features, and Adoulin's iLevels have only made the problems more pronounced. I'm just trying to understand how my fellow pet job compatriots are doing.

I do know you guys have a horrible mess of a system on which jug pets level how and how high... That 2k plasm thing is a terrible joke... And even as a 96 Cook I find the ingredients for some of the jug recipes to be ridiculous... But pound for pound, and assuming Best vs Best, how does BST perform? Is an appropriately geared BST pet really so lame that it just "wiffs endlessly", unable to kill even random field mobs in a reasonable period of time?

[dasva]

Isn't the best staff for bps ahable? True it probably will be faster to augment but the augmenting all that does is put us at the lvl of the other pet jobs just equipping ilvl gear lol. And that's part of the problem we can't go farther like smn can or like pup doesn't really need to.

Well the problem right now is the amount of useful gear that has come out recently. Like the difference between the best smn and say one that was the best pre soa is rediculously huge. Which is kinda a good thing since it needed something. bst is basically has the same pet gear except ilvl axe now. Well and now not using pdt axes.

As far as job vs job a bst can probably do more dmg but I mean it's sorta a DD. But pet vs pet smn completely destroys it. Alot of it is the acc issues even with full merits and brethern axe my pet was around like 30-50% acc on most soa content. While I'm sure it will be a bit better if I had the megaboss axe and the harder to get expensive pets it will still be a bit of wiffing... enough to where it hurts our dps to actually use pet gear if we are meleeing. And if we aren't bring 10 stacks of pet food lol. But even just acc wont be enough. Due to how oddly pdif works with pets as I'm sure you've noticed your smn melee dmg we need either alot more pet att (though crit rate da etc would be nice too) and I'm talking like 50-100 per peice on peices that also have other useful stuff like haste or like smn and pup have decent damaging tp moves with att bonuses on them lol. I mean I can use my bests pet damage moves on current content maybe pull out 200-300 dmg. I go use it on einherjar and they do like 1.5k-2k. Sure not exactly competetive with avatars or autos but it's actually worth using. Because readying 200 dmg tp is probably a dps loss

In the end basically it comes down to smn getting most the relavent pet gear lately. Pup doesn't care as much cause of how OP alternator is (I mean I just solod all the fights for AF and limit break with a 0 skill auto and no meleeing with the master) but jugs are basically where they were before the last few updates. Just something to use on lower content or as something to shed your hate onto. Only difference now is instead of like 10% acc I now can hit almost half the time. Well that and DD gear for the master has improved so now we gear like silly gimp wars. Basically it's a call out to more pet gear that is actually useful for bsts

[FaeQueenCory]

In the end basically it comes down to smn getting most the relavent pet gear lately.

As I said before: "What!? SMN actually getting useful gear after 11 years of getting nothing!? Unthinkable!"
I don't play BST as a main or anything... but I've dabbled enough to have a feel for it.
And I have plenty of friends who main it... and they tell me that you're crazy to think the new BST axes aren't insane. From their mouths, the new BST axes are the same level of buff as the 117 crafted-only staff you seem to be convinced that just falls from the sky.
Oh no! You have to use a piece of AF to have your pet be higher leveled? Smn is still stuck with the full empy set... because there's NOTHING ELSE THAT IS AS GOOD.
That's a whole set of 90ish gear that is pretty much the best a smn can do. (with a couple of exceptions due to personal taste... but mainly just the pants. but even then it's still none of it's iLv gear.) All this great new iLv gear that every other job is enjoying? Not a single piece of it is relevant to a smn outside of a macro-swap.

The encumbrance thread is filled with tales about how in Adoulin a person is getting hit for 100 a pop then encumbered and then suddenly they're getting popped for 4-800.
That's what smn is like 100% of the time.

Yes, smn is getting a large influx of MAB gear... and it's a glorious thing... because for the past 11 years of the game... smn has gotten nothing.
Nothing but AF sets and other JSE.
In other words: the same things every other job has gotten.

And dear GOD... the amount of work a smn has to put up with to get some of this gear... it's millions of gil worth of effort!
It's like Mokeil said, only the best of the best are going to have the time, energy, funds, and luck to be the best.
And complaining that everyone isn't the best is just wasting your energy where you could be going out there and getting the stuff you need to be good.
So go out and get these new axes, wear your AF that you need to... do what you need to do to be good.

But don't try and say that smn is getting too much good gear. Because it's not. It really isn't...
For once in smn's long existence... it's actually getting relevant gear that makes it playable.
In reality, your BST has FAR more numerous and better gear choices than smn ever does. Even now.

[dasva]

As I said before: "What!? SMN actually getting useful gear after 11 years of getting nothing!? Unthinkable!"
I don't play BST as a main or anything... but I've dabbled enough to have a feel for it.
And I have plenty of friends who main it... and they tell me that you're crazy to think the new BST axes aren't insane. From their mouths, the new BST axes are the same level of buff as the 117 crafted-only staff you seem to be convinced that just falls from the sky.

Again I'm talking about them getting stuff while bst is getting nothing. And cry me a river. If smn has gotten "nothing" for 11 years then bst has never gotten anything. Yes it's great to melee in and makes your pet great on 75 content. On soa stuff no your pets still suck balls. I've recently done stuff like skirmish and delve and wkr with pets and they wiff about half the time. And do bad dmg when they do hit. Even if you went with the FALSE assumption that the axe buffs pets as much as that staff... that still brings the problem of THAT'S ALL WE GET. While you also have the ammo doing which does as much as the axes ON TOP of that and all the new skirmish gear. Once again you are missing the entire point. bst just gets axe which needs to be combined with af2+2 and merits to do JUST what the new ammo is doing for smn. Then we get nothing else while smn is getting alot. Not sure how many times I'm going to have to repeat that until you stop acting like we both get 1 thing. Oh and that staff costs like 3.5mil on your server and 3-4 sell a day... so yeah pretty much falling from the sky.

Oh no! You have to use a piece of AF to have your pet be higher leveled? Smn is still stuck with the full empy set... because there's NOTHING ELSE THAT IS AS GOOD.
That's a whole set of 90ish gear that is pretty much the best a smn can do. (with a couple of exceptions due to personal taste... but mainly just the pants. but even then it's still none of it's iLv gear.) All this great new iLv gear that every other job is enjoying? Not a single piece of it is relevant to a smn outside of a macro-swap.

The encumbrance thread is filled with tales about how in Adoulin a person is getting hit for 100 a pop then encumbered and then suddenly they're getting popped for 4-800.
That's what smn is like 100% of the time.

Again I'm talking pets stop bringing up masters like that is even part of this conversation. I'd try to debate this part of gearing more except you are making absolutely no sense. Somehow comparing still having af3 that is good to bsts requirement to have to use and augment af2+2 and use merits on top of having ilvl weapon just to do what your ilvl ammo does. There is litterally no comparison between the 2 so I'm going to attribute this to you just being asleep when you wrote this part since it litterally makes no logical sense in this debate. Also wtf are you talking about af3? Head is only there for refresh. Body should only be used for bps. hands should only be used for manacede and maybe on same day weather and physical bps. Legs bp only. feet magical bp and siphon only. I'm begining to think you don't know your own job. It isn't the ilvl gear that is only good for maccro swapping but the old gear you are still foolishly using. Get skirmish 2 gear get perp on one set and pet mab on the other and pdt on both. That solves your fake ilvl getting hit for more dmg problem (why you are getting hit in the first place is another discussion), it also completely destroys your gearing arguments. Seriously you can now gear yourself to have +4 refresh with just gear with avatar out without avatars favor. And alot of that comes from using new gear. None of the af3+2 except head is ideal to idle in. And it only is if you are taking advantage of the new -perp gear from skirmish. On top of being the top idle peices they also have huge defensive stats to protect you and haste if you want to melee... Seriously have you been asleep since the last update?

Yes, smn is getting a large influx of MAB gear... and it's a glorious thing... because for the past 11 years of the game... smn has gotten nothing.
Nothing but AF sets and other JSE.
In other words: the same things every other job has gotten.

First off that's not completely true and same thing with bst. Why are you perfectly fine with your job getting a bunch of stuff after so long but hate another one getting stuff? Sure pettiness? Don't want any other pets to compete with? My entire point isn't that smn shouldn't get this stufff but that bst shouldn't be left out so no idea why you going so overboard with smns deserve gear. I'm not disagreeing I'm just saying there needs to be some balance.

And dear GOD... the amount of work a smn has to put up with to get some of this gear... it's millions of gil worth of effort!
It's like Mokeil said, only the best of the best are going to have the time, energy, funds, and luck to be the best.
And complaining that everyone isn't the best is just wasting your energy where you could be going out there and getting the stuff you need to be good.

That's not the complaint. The complaint is that you actually have that gear to get while bst doesn't. And really millions of gil is nothing now nor is the effort to get it.

So go out and get these new axes, wear your AF that you need to... do what you need to do to be good.

And that's the problem even if we go all out for our pets there is nothing we can do to make them good on soa content.

But don't try and say that smn is getting too much good gear. Because it's not. It really isn't...
For once in smn's long existence... it's actually getting relevant gear that makes it playable.

Never said that just saying it's gettting waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more. Also don't give me that bst has never been in endgame while smn almost always has been.

In reality, your BST has FAR more numerous and better gear choices than smn ever does. Even now.

As a gimp dual axe war sure but for pets which is the whole poitn of this thread again no smn gets waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more. The only things really worth using if meleeing are tojil belt skadi+1 hands and ilvl axe. I again ask you why you are balantly misrepresenting the difference in the 2 jobs pets and the 2 jobs pet gear? Why are you trying to imply or flat out say we are getting equal pertinent gearing options when that's a flat out lie or that our pets are even comparable right now when that is also a flat out lie? And why the heck do you keep on bringing up master gear in a thread about pet gear? You think if someone at SE releases just how imbalanced the pet jobs are right now they will take away your goodies instead of boost bst up or do you just hate bsts that much?

Oh and totally missed the point someone else made about how we can only actually get 2 pets to max lvl possible right now and one of them is the 2k plasm crab. I mean what if smns ammo just said garuda goes up in lvl lol?

[Umichi]

Now, I will freely admit I haven't payed much attention to BST since iLevel came along, but I know before-hand SMN and BST sort of balanced out in the end - better spike damage versus better DoT, disposability versus survivability, etc... That said, having assumed the very best gear set possible for SMN I don't think it's too far outside the realm of reasonable to ask how BST performs with its very best gear set possible. So, again, assuming the very best for BST, how do they really stack up?

There are still things a bst can solo smn can't even come close to.. however recently with the introduction of Ilvl after lvl 99, smn has been able to seemlessly do endgame content while bst is still trailing behind unable to solo because his stats just aren't up to scratch. Is it unfair that a bst who prefers to solo is being forced into meriting into merits he does not want just so he can get gear that still doesn't help him out much outside of being more capable of doing party and alliance oriented events?

I find the problem lies in the fact that there are not alot of gear paths for bst to choose from in order to work hard at gaining soloing gear. how it looks now all he's doing is grabbing party and alliance gear while pet is added damage like drg's wyvern is.... problem is wyvern levels with owner and shares stats of weapon to a point so my qiqiru is adding on damage and not missing... On normal mobs I can hit combined for about 1k+ in audolin. Going into deeper territories I average 600-700+ per combined hit

so I agree there are problems with bst. I know my friend is now stepping into audolin and he is an avid bst fan.. I just hope he is severely skilled (has lvld bst on 2 chars and worked hard on all gear forthem both) and can manage better because he's had more experience perhaps...

2k jugs are expensive.. but perhaps powerful? in the span of things they are getting 30 mins inbetween and any skilled bst can DD in lowman groups to get upgraded weapons and gear) and farming for plasm isn't to much of a hassle if you do 1-5 runs