Idea for SMN

[Pawlie]

Not sure if this has been said before.. but SE should do something like an ability that cuts the BP (rage and ward) timers in half, but the BPs will cost double (or alot more) MP.

UPDATE:

I also think that summoners should be able to proc in abyssea with their pets.

[FaeQueenCory]

Why would we want that?
The timer cap should just be increased.

at 75cap... the -15 cap was ok.
at 99cap... the -15 cap means SMN falls WAY behind pretty much everyone else... 80% haste cap... SMN still stuck at 25% "haste" cap.

There shouldn't be a punishment (double mp cost) to bringing SMN up to date to the rest of the jobs.
(-48 BP delay cap will never happen... but -30 BP delay cap is reasonable, possible, and REALLY needs to happen.)

[Herby]

I second Fae wholeheartedly. It's so discouraging to see every job getting faster and faster and we're still stuck in 2007

[Pawlie]

I get ya. But it seems like they wont do that. I figured sacrificing more MP will kind of make people not think the SMN job would be overpowered. Once something good happens to us, people will complain and then something bad happens

[Mokeil]

I get ya. But it seems like they wont do that. I figured sacrificing more MP will kind of make people not think the SMN job would be overpowered. Once something good happens to us, people will complain and then something bad happens

The game has gotten faster since its inception. Haste and Fast Cast options are everywhere, and they're not that hard to cap with a bit of investment. Every other job gets to benefit from this. (Indeed, Haste and Fast Cast are so ubiquitous that it is pretty much considered to be required that you have it be capped.) As both Fae and Herby have said, it's not cool to punish Summoner for the privilege of being able to enjoy the same benefits everyone else does.

I don't think anyone would feel Summoner was overpowered if we could just get down to -30 BP. Being able to eliminate half of our timer would essentially be equivalent to the same thing every other mage can do with Fast Cast gear. Heck, SE wouldn't even have to add any gear to make that happen - there's already plenty of it in game. All they'd have to do is ease up on an arbitrary restriction - a fairly easy task from a programming perspective, I might add.

A secondary consideration is that for most of our Wards we already pay more MP for less potent effects than other jobs can do. Why in the world would we want to double the cost of our ineffectiveness?

[Archades]

ok raising the cap is something that already been said, but what about in other direction? Increased potency to Rage and wards to match the cap. say like a trait to increase damage after a certain level.

[Deifact]

Meow, I want to be able to summon multiple avatars at once and for them to combine in a twisted elemental orgy of despair. Except Fenrir, beastiality is too much! Him and carbuncle can go make wonderful neon moon babies.

But yeah flip the switch SE, allow summoners to spam the crap out of blood pacts and actually be useful. They were really heading in the right direction with the elemental magic overhaul, but summoner again is left in the dust. I don't even know why anyone plays the job anymore.

[skullreaper]

In my personal opinion summoner could have been fixed many years ago when dancer was released because the system that dancers use for their dances is perfect for the bloodpact system, I think that the Bloodpact: Ward and Bloodpact: Rage systems are flawed because while the timers allow you to do two things every minute the avatars are quite weak and a summoner couldn't become a professional damage dealer nor buffer due to the limitation of the timer; however, with these changes the timer would be an issue of the past here is a illustration.

Current Bloodpact System

1.) Example #1
-Role= Hybrid
-Avatar= Titan
-Bloodpact: Rage= All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Bloodpact: Ward= All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Actions: 2 Actions (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP + Timers

2.) Example #2
-Role= Damage
-Avatar= Ifrit
-Bloodpact: Rage=All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Bloodpact: Ward=All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Actions: 1 action (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP, Timers, Adaptability

3.) Example #3
-Role= Buffing + Healing
-Avatar=Carbuncle
-Bloodpact: Rage=All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Bloodpact: Ward=All Bloodpacts 1 minute recast.
-Actions: 1 action (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP, Timer, Adaptability

New Bloodpact System

1.) Example #1
-Role= Hybrid
-Avatar= Titan
-Bloodpact: Rock Buster=Resets bloodpact timer to 10 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Earthern Ward=Resets bloodpact timer to 30 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Megalith Throw=Resets bloodpact timer to 20 seconds.
-Actions: 3 Actions (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP

2.) Example #2
-Role= Damage
-Avatar= Ifrit
-Bloodpact: Punch=Resets bloodpact timer to 4 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Fire II=Resets bloodpact timer to 6 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Flaming Crush=Resets bloodpact timer to 25 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Meteor Strike=Resets bloodpact timer to 25 seconds.
-Actions: 4 Actions (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP

3.) Example #3
-Role= Buffing + Healing
-Avatar=Carbuncle
-Bloodpact: Healing Ruby=Resets bloodpact timer to 5 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Shining Ruby=Resets bloodpact timer to 15 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Healing Ruby II=Resets bloodpact timer to 20 seconds.
-Bloodpact: Soothing Ruby=Resets bloodpact timer to 15 seconds.
-Bloodpact: healing Ruby=Resets bloodpact timer to 5 seconds.
-Actions: 5 Actions (1 minute)
-Limitations: MP

Clearly with this system summoners will have more bloodpacts done within the fast pace of parties, and while the timer will be different for each avatar the summoner will still be capable of completing more than 2 actions within a minute and with bloodpact reduction gear even more actions; however, bloodpact reduction gear should be change to percentages instead of flat reductions with this system for balance.

[Mokeil]

ok raising the cap is something that already been said, but what about in other direction? Increased potency to Rage and wards to match the cap. say like a trait to increase damage after a certain level.

In general, a shorter timer will allow for more flexibility in action choice. Thanks to our avatar casting times and the time it takes for an avatar to get into position for whatever BP we need, we've already got to be thinking 10 seconds into the future at the best of times. It's even worse when you have to consider each action knowing you can't do another for 45 seconds more.

Do you use a Rage to finish a fight, knowing it means you probably won't be able to contribute to the next kill in any appreciable way? Do you toss out that tasty Enfire to increase party kill speed, knowing that the mob is getting low on HP and is likely to toss out a debilitating TP move any second?

A shorter timer eases up on the needed prediction.

In specific, On Rages:
While it's true that on boss type mobs there won't be much difference between a BP every 30 seconds and proportionally stronger one every 45 seconds... The difference will be on the smaller mobs - mobs that typically only last about 30 seconds or so once the Melee Hoard of Doom descends upon it. A shorter timer will let us contribute to more individual fights, while also helping our overall public image of being just too slow to be useful.

On buff Wards:
Setting aside questions of effect potency, it takes us a long time to get our range of buffs up. Thirty seconds after the call to buff goes out will see that everyone else already has their whole range of party effects up and rolling. We won't have even hit our second one. Shorter timers let us get our support side up and going faster.

On curative Wards:
We have some pretty fantastic healing wards that don't see anywhere near as much use as they should. Think about that. Whitemages would kill for spells that do what Spring Water and Soothing Ruby do, so why aren't we called on to use them more? Easy. Because when your front lineers are suffering from para/blind/slow/etc and are in red HP, they need to be taken care of right then - not 30 seconds later. Sure, a shorter timer still means we're on a timer, and that means this will still be an issue... but it's a lot less of an issue with a shorter timer than a longer one.

[FaeQueenCory]

In general, a shorter timer will allow for more flexibility in action choice. Thanks to our avatar casting times and the time it takes for an avatar to get into position for whatever BP we need, we've already got to be thinking 10 seconds into the future at the best of times. It's even worse when you have to consider each action knowing you can't do another for 45 seconds more.

Do you use a Rage to finish a fight, knowing it means you probably won't be able to contribute to the next kill in any appreciable way? Do you toss out that tasty Enfire to increase party kill speed, knowing that the mob is getting low on HP and is likely to toss out a debilitating TP move any second?

A shorter timer eases up on the needed prediction.

In specific, On Rages:
While it's true that on boss type mobs there won't be much difference between a BP every 30 seconds and proportionally stronger one every 45 seconds... The difference will be on the smaller mobs - mobs that typically only last about 30 seconds or so once the Melee Hoard of Doom descends upon it. A shorter timer will let us contribute to more individual fights, while also helping our overall public image of being just too slow to be useful.

On buff Wards:
Setting aside questions of effect potency, it takes us a long time to get our range of buffs up. Thirty seconds after the call to buff goes out will see that everyone else already has their whole range of party effects up and rolling. We won't have even hit our second one. Shorter timers let us get our support side up and going faster.

On curative Wards:
We have some pretty fantastic healing wards that don't see anywhere near as much use as they should. Think about that. Whitemages would kill for spells that do what Spring Water and Soothing Ruby do, so why aren't we called on to use them more? Easy. Because when your front lineers are suffering from para/blind/slow/etc and are in red HP, they need to be taken care of right then - not 30 seconds later. Sure, a shorter timer still means we're on a timer, and that means this will still be an issue... but it's a lot less of an issue with a shorter timer than a longer one.

Wonderfully said, but you forgot something:
Our ward potency (the buffs not the heals) are crap atm.
The benefit of a smn ward is that it's all -ga effects...
While it would still be nice to have their potency revised for the >99 world we find ourselves in today....
The thing is...
if the BP cap was raise to 50% (30s)... then the sacrifice of having a less potent buff (ignoring the still relevant ones like Fenrir) would be a good trade-off if they could be reapplied every 30s as needed.
SCH/rdm will be better at casting a phalanx-ga than Diabolos... but should the timer be increased... Diabolos' phalanx-ga would be a more relevant alternative... even if it's only 13% (iirc) and a good sch can plop out a 25% (iirc)...

TL,DR: the timer cap needs to be inceased.
Everything else can wait for aeons... because that timer's cap is the single most important thing summoner needs to be viable.