Incentive for players to help with delve key item NMs

[Zumi]

I seen a lot of returning players lately shouting for delve NMs to get the key items for the delve weapons. Now these people are shouting all day pretty much but have a hard time getting people to join. Problem is there is almost no incentive for someone who has already beat that NM to help out in a single NM KI clear.

Manly do to the fact these give 500 plasma which is almost nothing. To give incentive to help out I would increase the rewards on these, maybe up the plasm rate.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

No. Here's why.
People will just spam the turtle 24/7.
No one will get their KI unless they only want the turtle.
Funny how that's what is already happening.

[Demon6324236]

See, I thought about this myself. I think for T1~3 they should give 2.5k Plasm, while T4~5 should give 3250 Plasm, 5 times the amount of now. It would not allow people to really spam these for easier Plasm. Also, change the guaranteed drop system, inside of a fracture, it should be a chance, outside it should be a guaranteed drop. By doing these you make the outside battles more rewarding, inside you only kill NMs for either a small Plasm spike with some extra drops, like Mata, or your going for the boss. In the case of going for the boss, you would be getting 30~70k Plasm from the boss itself I think, so you are talking about getting a much larger gain that way anyways. The items being a 100% drop inside when its more of a side thing is kinda dumb, it should be a 100% outside because your going out of your way to fight them I think.

In either case, I agree, and I would like to see the rewards changed to be better as to get more people to help out.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Outside NMs shout be conciderably weaker and have conciderably less drops. Their purpose is for gaining KI, the rest is superfluous.

[bloodbeat]

Outside NMs shout be conciderably weaker and have conciderably less drops. Their purpose is for gaining KI, the rest is superfluous.

A thousand times, this!
I tried Ceizak's T1 and T2 and the fight is just protracted and frustrating rather than difficult.
It's almost as if the fight is pitched to be slightly longer than the allowed time and it's annoying. I have zero interest in 99% of the drops.
It also stands at baffling odds with Wildskeeper Reives, which can continue for stupidly long periods. If people want to fight the fracture NM, why give them a stupidly small window of opportunity? (The answer is clearly because the KI is a guaranteed drop and forcing players to repeat efforts to get it means the progression is slower and, therefore, content lasts longer.)

[Damane]

See, I thought about this myself. I think for T1~3 they should give 2.5k Plasm, while T4~5 should give 3250 Plasm, 5 times the amount of now. It would not allow people to really spam these for easier Plasm. Also, change the guaranteed drop system, inside of a fracture, it should be a chance, outside it should be a guaranteed drop. By doing these you make the outside battles more rewarding, inside you only kill NMs for either a small Plasm spike with some extra drops, like Mata, or your going for the boss. In the case of going for the boss, you would be getting 30~70k Plasm from the boss itself I think, so you are talking about getting a much larger gain that way anyways. The items being a 100% drop inside when its more of a side thing is kinda dumb, it should be a 100% outside because your going out of your way to fight them I think.

In either case, I agree, and I would like to see the rewards changed to be better as to get more people to help out.

that makes no sense, you can get KIs inside or outside. for people that dont have KIs inside is the better option. They have more time on the fight itself (45 min instead of 20 min on T1-3 and 30 min insead fo 20 min for T4-T5), they only need to get clean pulls and if they defeated it they get a 100% item drop. I dont see the fuzz about this, delve should allways be done inside no matter what the target/goal is, outside is really only for bead farming (that are not anymore needed anyway!).

[Zumi]

that makes no sense, you can get KIs inside or outside. for people that dont have KIs inside is the better option. They have more time on the fight itself (45 min instead of 20 min on T1-3 and 30 min insead fo 20 min for T4-T5), they only need to get clean pulls and if they defeated it they get a 100% item drop. I dont see the fuzz about this, delve should allways be done inside no matter what the target/goal is, outside is really only for bead farming (that are not anymore needed anyway!).

I have actually asked someone who was making a shout group for outside fights once why don't they do it inside. Because they said its takes more time to get everyone to the spot so you run out of time. Which really is more of a lack of organization then anything.

[Hawklaser]

I have actually asked someone who was making a shout group for outside fights once why don't they do it inside. Because they said its takes more time to get everyone to the spot so you run out of time. Which really is more of a lack of organization then anything.

I disagree on that being a lack of organization. I side on the time issue, not because the person doing it runs out of time, but who knows how many members of the run. As all it takes for a shout group to fall apart is the wrong person leaving at the wrong time. Has nothing to do with the organization, but with everyone's schedules not being identical.

[OmnysValefor]

I have actually asked someone who was making a shout group for outside fights once why don't they do it inside. Because they said its takes more time to get everyone to the spot so you run out of time. Which really is more of a lack of organization then anything.

Well, if it's t4/t5 like kurma, it takes time to knock out the first 3 nms. Plus there's the havoc of how to handle the trash. If you have a solid dd/pld in a dt kit, they can grab everything but you still need people to stick together. You'll waste 20/45 minutes before you even get to t4/t5 and then you have to hope the NM you're after is the one you encounter.

That means having to explain the strats for 4 nm's, rather than one, and keep people from ragequitting when the randoms screw it up.

Alternatively, of course, you can just wait the 15 mins, while people try to stay alive, and go find the nm. I wouldn't want to do either with a pug.

[Demon6324236]

For T1~3 I understand how inside is better, to an extent. You still have to deal with normal mobs aggroing, the potential poor positioning of the NMs, and finding where they are in the first place, all before you get to the fight itself, as well as having to bring someone to sacrifice themselves, wasting a spot in the party for a nice chunk of time. So far as T4~5. Not only do you wait 15 minutes, you have a good chance of having a ton of mobs in your way, possibly even a NM in the way, then once you gather together at the right spot you have to do buffs, pull the NM clean so your not wasting your buff durations, and fight it as you normally would. To me, this all seems like to much of a time killer to really be worth the extra 10 minutes, that, and more of an annoyance if you fail, because unlike outside, where if you fail you just recover & pop again, instantly in the fight, you have to recover, then go back in and completely restart the fracture!

Simply improving the outside fights to the point of making them more appealing so that people are willing & wanting to do them sounds better to me. Right now, SE's reasoning for wanting to do the Bead fights have failed, why do Beads when you get more Plasm simply killing every NM in the zone, and its possible to do at the same time. No one cares about Beads, so no one does outside NMs to help people really, that, and even if you did it outside for the Bead, who would you take, a party of people without Delve weapons who are subpar by compare to your people your going to do the boss run with anyways, or take the people your doing the boss run with and smash the thing?

One thing I still contend needs done in the first place is an update to make the timer outside 30 minutes rather than 20, which would give you the same amount of time as inside from when the wall goes down. That with the other changes I suggested would make the outside NMs worth doing to a point, and easier for those behind on it still.