possible oversight with the new ilvl system?

[Fermion]

While I agree with full mage jobs having higher magic stats than hybrids, they still deserve something. They added a lot of STR, DEX, attack, accuracy and haste to mage gear in this new change and have since Seekers of Adoulin.

None of those stats will have mages busting out Shattersouls on Top Tier content.

So if the argument is magic bonuses are for full mages only, then take away all forms of melee stats on full mage gear. Because by that logic you should never be meleeing as a mage. Not that I want or think, just proving a point how ludicrous that is.

Taking those stats off mage gear would have absolutely no effect on Top Tier content.

The point is hybrids are a blend and should well.. have hybrid weapons and armor. I don't see how that doesn't make complete sense. It is not even a matter of who is the better mage because hybrids aren't and shouldn't be. The times in the past hybrids have been chosen over full mages, have to do with problems in other areas of FFXI's battle mechanics and should not penalize a job for being what it is.

You've totally missed my point. The context I was talking about was Top Tier content. Nothing else.

I agree that there should be some weaker magic accuracy hybrid weapons (never said they shouldn't exist, my context was Top Tier content though). But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

[Alpheus]

But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

Wouldn't that just mean mages who have to enfeeble just got more incentive to go a subjob that allows dual wield?
The 3 mages who would enfeeble anything would be GEO SCH and RDM. RDM gets JSE exclusive stuff to make enfeebles last longer, SCHs would be too busy stunning anything to toss a paralyze or what have you and a GEO is actually required to stand near the mob. That last part is important because SE is adding a mechanic where ilvl weapons with +skill on them will affect how many shadows AoE attacks absorb which would give said GEO incentive to go /nin anyway once that update goes live. WHM is excluded since its subjob requires it be rdm or sch for MP staying power, BRDs dont have access to m.acc clubs and any m.acc 1handed weapons would be swords and katanas so BRD is out. BLM can benefit but you'd have to find a use for BLM first.

Oh and GEO was included despite being similar to WHM in that their MP sustainability comes from sub because GEOs tend to be in the same party as a RDM who can refresh them. So yes I think pure mages would be just fine even with dual wield being a factor.

[Trumpy]

I was kinda curious why only magic accuracy was added as well as magic attack bonus (also magic damage now) to a lot of these staves or clubs but no actual elemental, enfeeble, divine, or blue magic skill for example were added. I mean they added combat skills to simulate job level growth, but no magical skill. Is magical accuracy enough?

[Fermion]

Wouldn't that just mean mages who have to enfeeble just got more incentive to go a subjob that allows dual wield?

That would effectively destroy SCH (it's tied to /RDM or /BLM). WHM as you said, needs /RDM or /SCH. The only mage that would benefit would be RDM.

So yes I think pure mages would be just fine even with dual wield being a factor.

You must be a melee only character. It seems you have no idea how broken that would be. Terrible idea. Like I said, hybrids should have weaker magic accuracy options. But they should in no way be at the level of mage jobs. Why is that so hard to accept?

Look at it this way. /RDM offers 150 enfeebling magic. With 338 more, that brings you to 488 magic accuracy. Which only takes a few more magic accuracy pieces to bring you to 500 enfeebling magic accuracy...ON ANY JOB with dual wield. How is that in any way, excuse my rudeness, not completely and utterly stupid? ???/RDM dual wielding magic accuracy swords would be more accurate than SCH/RDM (which NEEDS /RDM for enfeebles in the first place). See how crazy it sounds?

[Doombringer]

i suppose this hits the same issue that SE was worried about with adding melee stats to new weapons. the bonus' need to be large to make up the power gap of us not being able to ding lvl 100+, but dual wield can throw it for a loop.

so just stacking magic acc may not work, but i think we all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done.

[Rwolf]

None of those stats will have mages busting out Shattersouls on Top Tier content.

Taking those stats off mage gear would have absolutely no effect on Top Tier content.

It doesn't matter Fermion, you missed the point completely. First, it was an example and I explained I don't even feel that way. It was an inverted example based on the logic of others who have advocated against hybrids getting hybrid stats because they aren't a full mage. If you didn't make the comment, then don't create a rebuttal. You're taking a stance and debating with yourself.

You've totally missed my point. The context I was talking about was Top Tier content. Nothing else.

I agree that there should be some weaker magic accuracy hybrid weapons (never said they shouldn't exist, my context was Top Tier content though). But I don't want to see hybrids dual-wielding a +188 and +150 magic accuracy weapons. Since magic accuracy is all inclusive, unlike combat skill, that's 338 magic accuracy in the weapon slot alone. You'd probably be able to land enfeebles from /RDM with that much accuracy. It's easy to extrapolate that you'd be insta-capped on everything in the game. I'm sure SE designed the magic evasion of NMs without taking dual-wielding into account, since staff and clubs are on equal levels.

I think you're the one who is missing the point. No where in the OP did he mention current top tier content. Also no one requested some exaggerated amount like dual wielding +150 magic accuracy weapons. The OP was stating that given full mages are getting such a huge amount of stats now. Where is the lower amount for hybrid weapons. A lot of the new clubs and staves have both magical and melee stats on them. Hence the OP and others including myself are saying "Ok, that's well and good but where are the hybrid stats on hybrid jobs?"

By throwing out huge massive numbers of +338 magic accuracy and going over the top with it. You're not only missing the point completely, you're twisting the request of the OP and agreeing players. Dial back the negative and focus on positive.

Examples:
- Provide your opinion on how much magic accuracy you think is appropriate.
- Provide ideas of how it can be constrained to not be abused with dual wield or more important land desirable buffs from another job.

Either one of those is better than lacing an entire post in "NO's", "you don't understand", and "overpowered". Cool down and communicate.

In my opinion and this is generally speaking not focused on replying to Fermion. Hybrid jobs should have weapons are hybrid weapons. There is no foreseeable stats that conflict with each other to make a job "overpowered". The only job that even remotely simultaneously uses physical and magical stats is Blue Mage. The only thing they would get out of it is magic accuracy, which they already have copious amount of and it still hasn't made a huge difference.

[OmnysValefor]

i suppose this hits the same issue that SE was worried about with adding melee stats to new weapons. the bonus' need to be large to make up the power gap of us not being able to ding lvl 100+, but dual wield can throw it for a loop.

so just stacking magic acc may not work, but i think we all agree that SOMETHING needs to be done.

Everyone has wondered why these stats weren't just latent effects. Obviously, they've been able to do slot-specific latents for a long long time.

[Metaking]

well even with the item changes only 2 weapons se seems to have planed for macc for dw's
Mondaha Cudgel
DMG:130 Delay:340
MP+30 INT+5 MND+10
Accuracy+18 Magic Accuracy+58
Club skill+153 Parrying skill+153

and tamaxchi macc +90 for a total of 148(161[macc path on club])) macc which would mean slightly more macc than the updated soothsayer (135[148]) but considerably less than the updated Atinian Staff (180). Mind you the club options seem like they will stay slightly Superior Macc wise, but are set up to easily lose for pure magical DMG output, which only helps blu and rdm out, nin cor and drk i have no idea what se would do other than make a light dd set of gear that's stated like heavy mage gear >.>; i mean be a real shame if drks stop being able to steal tp or buff up there hp before soul eater.

[Mirage]

Item levels for character growth is a terrible idea in general. It would have been much better to just have added another merit category that would let you increase your character's powers dramatically, while also requiring lulz amounts of exp (or even special SoA "exp", if they want to keep all 99+ character progression within SoA, like they currently are doing with item levels.)

[Alpheus]

That would effectively destroy SCH (it's tied to /RDM or /BLM). WHM as you said, needs /RDM or /SCH. The only mage that would benefit would be RDM.

You must be a melee only character. It seems you have no idea how broken that would be. Terrible idea. Like I said, hybrids should have weaker magic accuracy options. But they should in no way be at the level of mage jobs. Why is that so hard to accept?

Look at it this way. /RDM offers 150 enfeebling magic. With 338 more, that brings you to 488 magic accuracy. Which only takes a few more magic accuracy pieces to bring you to 500 enfeebling magic accuracy...ON ANY JOB with dual wield. How is that in any way, excuse my rudeness, not completely and utterly stupid? ???/RDM dual wielding magic accuracy swords would be more accurate than SCH/RDM (which NEEDS /RDM for enfeebles in the first place). See how crazy it sounds?

Sounds like you have issue with the fact that growth is coming from gear, which as a WHM main I do as well. Since in that style of system its far more easier to balance around melee jobs than mages. Why? Because the whole damn point of of growth through gear is to get away from lateral upgrades and SE has shown that they only seem able to create mage gear when it's laterally implemented. I'll admit yes I should have excluded SCH too since their sub is tied to stunning so it's blm or gtfo for them.

In my examples I was simply talking about Magic Accuracy and your greatest problem in your example (a situation you don't want to see happen) seems to be about +skill to enfeebling on weapons or what have you and yes that's a good point....except that's NOT what they're doing. They can't do it because adding magic +skill would make tons and tons of lateral niche equips for mages/hybrids which would be beneficial for each job involved had they an item catered to them in such a way; except SE has stated they're in the business of not doing such things. This is evident by all the Magic Evasion on gear instead of say a crapload of boosts to elemental resistance values element by element. They're making gear with huge gains with the lowest common denominator that can be applied across as many jobs as possible for every piece. Minus exceptions like Manibhozo hands but after the update if you R15 them then tada they're awesome melee hands too.

That's totally fine though to have awesome gear with awesome stats that can be equally used awesomely by as many jobs as possible. The giant flaw is that you can't do that with mages, well alright you can but SE has shown that they can't or are willing to phone it in so there isn't much of a difference there.

Disclaimer: I'm aware that a shitload of M.Acc would circumvent quite a bit of the lack of a specific magic +skill stat on a weapon but as has been repeated throughout the thread, we're talking about hybrid stats and proportional amounts on said weapons. To add to this all M.EVA was raised on both PC and enemy alike so an insane amount of magic accuracy might actually be needed. If an insane amount is needed more than likely the go to jobs for such tasks before the necessity was implemented will be in a much better position after the stakes and capabilities are both raised.

You must be a melee only character.

Oh almost forgot about this. Don't talk to me like you know me. Don't presume to know me.