How long is too long

[Tennotsukai]

To all of you people saying this content makes sense or that people should stop being stupid and learn to be elite I say this: get a freaking job or a girl... then comment back.

Lol, at least understand that if a server can not support enough people to do this event efficiently at any given time then se should definitively reevaluate this content.

Also, 12 hour fights, or even 4 hour fights, should never ever happen in an mmo.

[Mahoro]

To all of you people saying this content makes sense or that people should stop being stupid and learn to be elite I say this: get a freaking job or a girl... then comment back.

Lol, at least understand that if a server can not support enough people to do this event efficiently at any given time then se should definitively reevaluate this content.

Also, 12 hour fights, or even 4 hour fights, should never ever happen in an mmo.

I don't think they were intended to be 12 or 4 hour fights.

Also, is there an equivalent to Godwin's Law for playing the RL card?

[FrankReynolds]

I don't think they were intended to be 12 or 4 hour fights.

Also, is there an equivalent to Godwin's Law for playing the RL card?

Yes. The longer the thread goes on, the higher the probability that some d-bag will say "Doing X is easy. You just have to do X for way longer than a sane person would want to do anything and you'll get what you want..." and then claim that anyone not dedicating at least 40/hrs a week to the game is a freeloader who just wants everything easy mode.

[Mahoro]

Maybe if this were 2004, sure. At least people aren't saying that anymore.

[Rustic]

To all of you people saying this content makes sense or that people should stop being stupid and learn to be elite I say this: get a freaking job or a girl... then comment back.

Lol, at least understand that if a server can not support enough people to do this event efficiently at any given time then se should definitively reevaluate this content.

Also, 12 hour fights, or even 4 hour fights, should never ever happen in an mmo.

Full time job, married, widowered, 8-year relationship and counting. But drag-out fights like that happen because people are stubborn and don't want to quit when they realize that the only rate of the mob's healthbar declined is measurable in is "percent per hour", rather than the far, far more quick results a proper fight actually is. That is, they think that just coming and starting the fight without the proper preparations = they'll be able to hack it out anyway.

If a fight drags that far out, I'm not one to go "Oh, goodie, if I stay three hours more, I MIGHT get something"...I'll go do something productive instead. Some players are masochistic that way. I'm not. I know what it's like when it's being done right, I've seen what it's like when it's done wrong, and I'm not wasting my time to clean up after them.

Again, it's common knowledge what it takes to make the fight work properly. If you want to empty the ocean with a teaspoon, be my guest- I'm not hanging around to help you on your epic journey of derp.

[Vivivivi]

/facepalm

Alright, one last time I swear.

Battle strategies are not the problem with regard to Yumcax specifically. Groups are properly getting windshots and windblade on it to break the regen shield etc.

The problem is that the following things all exist at the same time:
- The entry item requires a significant time investment
- The mob can and will regen to full if not constantly dealt with
- Adds in the area have devastating AOE spells
- The battle can be entered by anyone and all mobs are targetable regardless of party or alliance affiliation
- Similarly, AOE spells will do damage to everyone regardless of whether or not they have aggro

Because of the combination of these things is why we are seeing Yumcax fights extend well beyond a reasonable time-frame. You can have a fabulous setup of 18 people, two Aegis paladins, corsairs, summoners, healers, buffers, DDs, and everything can be going smoothly if prepared properly.

The major problem:
There is absolutely nothing that group can do if a single person acting on their own decides to join, and pull/link/aggro a few Stonega 3 casting mobs over to that group (intentionally or not). The alliance has two options- ignore the mobs, which WILL aggro them after their initial target(s) are defeated, or engage them. If they are unsuccessful in defeating every last mob that aggro'd the alliance, those mobs will then proceed to KO each and every last alliance member.

Everyone here is entitled to their own opinions on whether or not they feel they should just leave the battlefield at that point, that's fine, no one is forcing anyone to play the game for an unreasonable amount of time. However, the fact of the matter is that many people are not choosing to leave, and as a result you are left with little choice but to "stick it out" if you want the win.

This is my final rant on the subject because I have nothing new to contribute to it, I am just rephrasing all of my earlier points.

Here is what I see. The Yumcax battle itself is designed just fine. The NM and the adds are not too difficult to deal with when prepared, and everyone works together. It is the combination of the bullet points outlined above that is problematic. Putting myself in the dev team's shoes for a moment, I have to imagine it is difficult to anticipate how these scenarios are actually playing out. The battlefield has a "safe" recovery spot, if everyone is on the same page. The reality is, people enter the battlefield constantly, make a mistake, and repeatedly wipe dozens of other players who are trying to recover.

I have multiple constructive ideas on how to prevent these marathon battles, none of which involve "nerfing" the fight itself because I don't feel that's necessary to do. Maybe the simplest one is most obvious- alter the regen dispelling to either last longer or permanently break. It doesn't fix MPK issues, as I would have to guess altering the mobs behaviors would be a much more involved adjustment. What it does do is prevent progress from reversing itself because one or two individuals slipped up.

In the words of the great philosopher Forrest Gump, "and that's all I've got to say about that."

[Sparthos]

To anyone defending Colonization as it stands: You're insane. Please consult a mental health physician immediately. Tell them you escaped from a POW camp.

Seekers of Adoulin exists within a declining period in the history of FFXI and that means to most of us still sticking out that we've survived where others have not and it's upon the backs of the devs to create content that gels with the current state of the game. 20hr Wildskeeper Reives and Reives in general where people leech for hours on end rather than participate aren't exactly what players find fun and engaging content.

This isn't 2005. And even in 2005 you didn't have 15+ hr battles against a notorious monster. Even the longest Tiamats and Jormungands I recall in my personal adventures dragged out to the 8-9hr mark and that was mostly one part ego and another part horrible gaming from the parties involved. SE noted these battles going on too long and decided to start capping battles between 1-2hrs for the sake of the base and as their responsibility as developers. Why the current shift back to unlimited battles?

Wildskeepers are supposed to be public, 'easy' (Relative to Delve) battles and should be 2hrs tops. The Colonization system isn't working because Yorcia Weald has the worst map ever churned out by SE, making the Promyvion coffee stain maps look like great works of cartography by comparison. How exactly do you encourage people to do Reives when you:

-Can't see where you're f*king going.
-Can't see where the Reives are happening.
-Have random ass trees blocking the paths.

[detlef]

Full time job, married, widowered, 8-year relationship and counting. But drag-out fights like that happen because people are stubborn and don't want to quit when they realize that the only rate of the mob's healthbar declined is measurable in is "percent per hour", rather than the far, far more quick results a proper fight actually is. That is, they think that just coming and starting the fight without the proper preparations = they'll be able to hack it out anyway.

If a fight drags that far out, I'm not one to go "Oh, goodie, if I stay three hours more, I MIGHT get something"...I'll go do something productive instead. Some players are masochistic that way. I'm not. I know what it's like when it's being done right, I've seen what it's like when it's done wrong, and I'm not wasting my time to clean up after them.

You have such a condescending attitude in all of your posts. Once people are at the fight, they are pretty much committed to the fight. Most people can't afford to warp and try a different strategy because 75k bayld is a significant investment. Once you're in the battlefield, that's it, you're not leaving. If the battle looks like it's not going well, realistically you have three options: keep slogging along, afk, or log out. In most cases, warping is not an option. On my server, the general attitude is to tough it out and hope the JPs with their army of CORs log on and kill it. That's just reality.

[Mahoro]

I think the overriding theme on which people agree here is that the Yorcia Weald reives and zone inhibit colonization rate, thereby contributing to the long marathon Yumcax sessions which SE did not really intend. This thread would not really be in existence but for those premises.

There are resources out there to make Yorcia more accessible, such as Spira's superlative maps. However, most people don't take advantage of these for whatever reason. Thus, it appears SE should do some work to make Yorcia a bit more accessible, else players will continue to try to circumvent the colonization system and subject themselves to marathon Yumcax sessions.

[Daemon]

You have such a condescending attitude in all of your posts. Once people are at the fight, they are pretty much committed to the fight. Most people can't afford to warp and try a different strategy because 75k bayld is a significant investment. Once you're in the battlefield, that's it, you're not leaving. If the battle looks like it's not going well, realistically you have three options: keep slogging along, afk, or log out. In most cases, warping is not an option. On my server, the general attitude is to tough it out and hope the JPs with their army of CORs log on and kill it. That's just reality.

Yeah but he is probably coming off with the same attitude that everyone else has. That its ridiculous to make us waste so much time earning 75k Bayld to purchase 1 ki and then dedicate countless hours fighting a boss when in reality every human being has a life and can't be glued stuck to a computer screen all day and night in hopes of earning an item.

Just he knows the difference in a good setup and a bad one which could extend the time further and make time wasted even more. I don't blame him, I wouldn't want to waste my time trying to make something happen if I can see that the party is a fail.

And we know there are many players eagerly wanting the best and show up not even prepared with the right gear, gear sets, food, meds, expecting to hop on the win train.