I can't believe I'm going to say this

[Mahoro]

What I'm saying is that the lower tier and / or prerequisite gear for doing to --> delve --> bosses comes from events that take longer to complete than the top tier gear from bosses does. Which means that the top players will finish that content faster not just because they are better, but because the content takes less time. If the devs want to make them happy, they have to release more top tier content. Which leads to the guys in the middle / rear falling even further behind. The grind is currently at the bottom. Not the top.

When I say "reasonable amount of time", I mean that people should be able to at least get to the top tier content before it becomes outdated.

I think that people have a reasonable amount of time to get to the top tier content before it becomes outdated, based on the dev's upcoming plans. The next round of Delve Bosses aren't even scheduled, although they will likely come out before the end of the year. And when they do, we know that they will (at least) contain the Delve versions of Yumcax and Hurkan, which will simply drop HQ versions of the current WKR gear. We don't really know when, or if, SE intends to outdate current Delve Boss gear. To my knowledge, nothing above Content Level 20 has been firmly discussed by Matsui.

The least they could do is meet in the middle and make those jobs incredibly easy to gear up to current endgame standards.

The fact that Bard relies on two instruments that require upwards of $200 million in items to make and white mage (As well as red mage really) requires all sorts of annoying stuff like Magian staves, quested refresh pieces and potency pieces from VW events that no one does anymore and that Cor burns through bullets / cards etc. and requires people to skill up ranged acc. isn't a big help.

They could easily remedy some of that stuff.

I agree BRD and COR have a fairly high "buy-in", but WHM and GEO are extremely accessible to gear. People are beginning to use Tamaxchi instead of Magian staves now anyway, and Bokwus Gloves exist. Most Refresh pieces can be obtained from a few quick kills in Abyssea (Serpentes gear, Owleyes), a 30-minute Nyzul run (Nares Trews), or from low tier Delve (Bokwus Robe). VW pieces like Heka's Kalsiris and Rubeus Boots might increase efficiency, but nobody will decline inviting a WHM who puts together a reasonably good cure potency, Refresh, and fast cast/Haste set.

[FrankReynolds]

I think that people have a reasonable amount of time to get to the top tier content before it becomes outdated, based on the dev's upcoming plans. The next round of Delve Bosses aren't even scheduled, although they will likely come out before the end of the year. And when they do, we know that they will (at least) contain the Delve versions of Yumcax and Hurkan, which will simply drop HQ versions of the current WKR gear. We don't really know when, or if, SE intends to outdate current Delve Boss gear. To my knowledge, nothing above Content Level 20 has been firmly discussed by Matsui.

Well, I guess we'll see. Hopefully there are some server merges by then, because there is nothing going on on Cerberus.

I agree BRD and COR have a fairly high "buy-in", but WHM and GEO are extremely accessible to gear. People are beginning to use Tamaxchi instead of Magian staves now anyway, and Bokwus Gloves exist. Most Refresh pieces can be obtained from a few quick kills in Abyssea (Serpentes gear, Owleyes), a 30-minute Nyzul run (Nares Trews), or from low tier Delve (Bokwus Robe). VW pieces like Heka's Kalsiris and Rubeus Boots might increase efficiency, but nobody will decline inviting a WHM who puts together a reasonably good cure potency, Refresh, and fast cast/Haste set.

I just called the WHM gear annoying because it comes from stuff that no one does and it takes a while (keep in mind we are talking about people who don't actually want to play WHM).

[Zumi]

Pretty much the best gear comes from bosses which are too hard for the majority of the player base. The boss items are so much better then anything else. There might be like 2 English LS per server that do these. Would I like to join a LS that does bosses yes I sure would but they are all full.

Even if you have a lot of useful jobs for bosses, IE you got in an organized pug got boss weapons, geared out your monk, leveled geo, cor, geared out your whm, rdm, sch. Chances of finding a LS that will let you join are so low due to the fact that there are about 2 or so LS per server they almost never take new members and if they do its because someone has a friend that is already in the said LS.

This leads to more and more people quitting because they can't do the content they want to do, saying you can do skermish or something else is not acceptable for most people.

I have this problem with FFXI right now. I want to do delve boss content I can't find a LS at all. I get told no all the time or they are full or what ever. I made a huge effort in leveling gearing jobs, skilling up stuff like geo, getting cor leveled, gearing out my melee jobs with top of the line gear, rdm, whm, yet still no lucking finding a endgame LS.

To me it seems like the game is on its last legs because it shouldn't be difficult to find a group to play the game with.

Compare that to other games. FFXIV ARR, there are so many guilds looking for that game because it is launching soon. I would have no problem getting in a endgame group in that game. Another example is WoW the game is like 8 years old they have 7.7m subs but declining however they still have a huge recruitment forum there's are tons of guilds looking for players for end game raids, it is very easy to post on their forums and find a group that is right for you.

FFXI doesn't have this at all. If I can't get into a group that does stuff, I am better off just not playing anymore.

SE made some weird design choice. In that they made delve boss content in SoA so pug unfriendly. Abyssea and VW were very pug friendly. I would be much more happy and content with the game if it had a VW difficulty, like PW diffculity would of been fine. Not exactly super easy that a bunch of new players but not so difficult that it shuts out the majority of the player base that wants to do this content.

I have gone on about 10 Tojil in some organized pick up groups but those are really once in a blue moon type of deals. I want to be able to do content everyday like how it was with Voidwatch not every so often I see some rare shout.

Catering to about 2 LS per server is not the way to run a game.

[Afania]

The fact that Bard relies on two instruments that require upwards of $200 million in items to make and white mage (As well as red mage really) requires all sorts of annoying stuff like Magian staves, quested refresh pieces and potency pieces from VW events that no one does anymore and that Cor burns through bullets / cards etc. and requires people to skill up ranged acc. isn't a big help..

What? COR is a complete leech job atm, you can do it naked and still clear....

Also nobody play DD COR anymore, COR/WHM is more effective in delve boss runs and usually contribute more, and you don't need zomg awesome gear nor skill up to cast haste/na/erase. I only know 1 LS on my server that uses COR/DNC, and their parse % wasn't big enough to make it more useful than COR/WHM unless your ally has surplus of support. And even if you do COR/DNC DD, you don't "burn through bullets", especially after recent recycle update.

There's really 0 reason to complain about COR requirement when it doesn't even need skill up to function properly atm, which makes it even easier than GEO. If COR is consider an "annoying job", you may as well don't play FFXI because almost every job needs 100x more work.

[Afania]

Pretty much the best gear comes from bosses which are too hard for the majority of the player base. The boss items are so much better then anything else. There might be like 2 English LS per server that do these. Would I like to join a LS that does bosses yes I sure would but they are all full.

Even if you have a lot of useful jobs for bosses, IE you got in an organized pug got boss weapons, geared out your monk, leveled geo, cor, geared out your whm, rdm, sch. Chances of finding a LS that will let you join are so low due to the fact that there are about 2 or so LS per server they almost never take new members and if they do its because someone has a friend that is already in the said LS.

This leads to more and more people quitting because they can't do the content they want to do, saying you can do skermish or something else is not acceptable for most people.

I have this problem with FFXI right now. I want to do delve boss content I can't find a LS at all. I get told no all the time or they are full or what ever. I made a huge effort in leveling gearing jobs, skilling up stuff like geo, getting cor leveled, gearing out my melee jobs with top of the line gear, rdm, whm, yet still no lucking finding a endgame LS.

To me it seems like the game is on its last legs because it shouldn't be difficult to find a group to play the game with.

Compare that to other games. FFXIV ARR, there are so many guilds looking for that game because it is launching soon. I would have no problem getting in a endgame group in that game. Another example is WoW the game is like 8 years old they have 7.7m subs but declining however they still have a huge recruitment forum there's are tons of guilds looking for players for end game raids, it is very easy to post on their forums and find a group that is right for you.

FFXI doesn't have this at all. If I can't get into a group that does stuff, I am better off just not playing anymore.

SE made some weird design choice. In that they made delve boss content in SoA so pug unfriendly. Abyssea and VW were very pug friendly. I would be much more happy and content with the game if it had a VW difficulty, like PW diffculity would of been fine. Not exactly super easy that a bunch of new players but not so difficult that it shuts out the majority of the player base that wants to do this content.

I have gone on about 10 Tojil in some organized pick up groups but those are really once in a blue moon type of deals. I want to be able to do content everyday like how it was with Voidwatch not every so often I see some rare shout.

Catering to about 2 LS per server is not the way to run a game.

This is what happen to FFXI when you replaced easy long term goals(REM) with hard short term goals(delve boss weapons).

The fact that it takes months or years for avg to get REM, means everyone have something to do and won't quit easily. For ppl with good group, they spent shorter amount of time, and that's their reward for their effort.

Now this game is hard short term goal only. You either get a LS that can kill 1~3 delve boss every night, capped every delve boss gears and make 7M in 3hr by selling airlixir +1(that's what I've been doing in past weeks, so I wasn't making it up), or you have no LS/group and unable to make anymore progress because every other lowman content gear and REM is worthless. Whether you get an LS or not, is irrelevant to your skill, time spent in XI nor job/gear you have. But only related to your connection. As long as you have a LS, the amount of time required to cap delve boss gears, is even lower than Abyssea era, much lower.

After few more months, ppl with LS cap delve boss gear and quit because they have nothing to do, ppl without LS also quit because they can't make progress, so it's kinda hit or miss.

This game shouldn't have kill REM/long term goal to begin with.

[detlef]

This is what happen to FFXI when you replaced easy long term goals(REM) with hard short term goals(delve boss weapons).

The fact that it takes months or years for avg to get REM, means everyone have something to do and won't quit easily. For ppl with good group, they spent shorter amount of time, and that's their reward for their effort.

Now this game is hard short term goal only. You either get a LS that can kill 1~3 delve boss every night, capped every delve boss gears and make 7M in 3hr by selling airlixir +1(that's what I've been doing in past weeks, so I wasn't making it up), or you have no LS/group and unable to make anymore progress because every other lowman content gear and REM is worthless. Whether you get an LS or not, is irrelevant to your skill, time spent in XI nor job/gear you have. But only related to your connection. As long as you have a LS, the amount of time required to cap delve boss gears, is even lower than Abyssea era, much lower.

After few more months, ppl with LS cap delve boss gear and quit because they have nothing to do, ppl without LS also quit because they can't make progress, so it's kinda hit or miss.

This game shouldn't have kill REM/long term goal to begin with.

This post is amazingly accurate. I especially agree with the easy long term goals vs. the difficult short term goals. I also agree strongly with your statement that both hardcore and casual players will eventually hit a wall and run out of things to do.

[Helldemon]

This is what happen to FFXI when you replaced easy long term goals(REM) with hard short term goals(delve boss weapons).

The fact that it takes months or years for avg to get REM, means everyone have something to do and won't quit easily. For ppl with good group, they spent shorter amount of time, and that's their reward for their effort.

Now this game is hard short term goal only. You either get a LS that can kill 1~3 delve boss every night, capped every delve boss gears and make 7M in 3hr by selling airlixir +1(that's what I've been doing in past weeks, so I wasn't making it up), or you have no LS/group and unable to make anymore progress because every other lowman content gear and REM is worthless. Whether you get an LS or not, is irrelevant to your skill, time spent in XI nor job/gear you have. But only related to your connection. As long as you have a LS, the amount of time required to cap delve boss gears, is even lower than Abyssea era, much lower.

After few more months, ppl with LS cap delve boss gear and quit because they have nothing to do, ppl without LS also quit because they can't make progress, so it's kinda hit or miss.

This game shouldn't have kill REM/long term goal to begin with.

It used to be like this during kings/salvage era but there was barely anyone complaining compared to now. There were people in ls's/groups that could kill the hardest stuff and get the best drops and there were lots that couldn't. I think with abyssea and VW allowing pretty much anyone to get the best gear now everyone always wants the best and for it to be easy.

[detlef]

It used to be like this during kings/salvage era but there was barely anyone complaining compared to now. There were people in ls's/groups that could kill the hardest stuff and get the best drops and there were lots that couldn't. I think with abyssea and VW allowing pretty much anyone to get the best gear now everyone always wants the best and for it to be easy.

Back in those days, "the best" wasn't light years ahead of the next best option like it is today.

[FrankReynolds]

What? COR is a complete leech job atm, you can do it naked and still clear....

Also nobody play DD COR anymore, COR/WHM is more effective in delve boss runs and usually contribute more, and you don't need zomg awesome gear nor skill up to cast haste/na/erase. I only know 1 LS on my server that uses COR/DNC, and their parse % wasn't big enough to make it more useful than COR/WHM unless your ally has surplus of support. And even if you do COR/DNC DD, you don't "burn through bullets", especially after recent recycle update.

There's really 0 reason to complain about COR requirement when it doesn't even need skill up to function properly atm, which makes it even easier than GEO. If COR is consider an "annoying job", you may as well don't play FFXI because almost every job needs 100x more work.

Yeah, I'm sure lots of PUGs and linkshells are recruiting butt naked cors now. Were you drunk when you wrote this?

[Louispv]

It used to be like this during kings/salvage era but there was barely anyone complaining compared to now. There were people in ls's/groups that could kill the hardest stuff and get the best drops and there were lots that couldn't. I think with abyssea and VW allowing pretty much anyone to get the best gear now everyone always wants the best and for it to be easy.

Because back in the day, we didn't have any of these problems. You didn't have to have a Defending ring on every melee and tank to kill King Behemoth. You didn't need Adaman Hauberks to kill Fafnir. The enemies were fairly easy to kill, the only work was getting to them.

And there were many many ways to get the stuff you needed. Today we have Delve and nothing else. We could, back in the day, get HNM drops, or regular NM's, or get Sky gear, or buy crafted stuff, or get limbus/dynamis armor, or do burning circles, or hell, some of Artifact was still good.

Also gear didn't matter. Adaman hauberk was less than a 1% difference from Hauberk. Actually getting TO the level cap and getting merits was a far bigger increase. Today, a person with delve boss equipment is twice as good as someone with bayld equipment. Demanding R/E/M only for voidwatch was dumb, but now that people without Delve weapons are literally 15-20 levels lower than those with it, it's justified entirely. But now that you "level up" by getting gear, that gear needs to be easily available to everyone, or else there's a different level cap for everyone. You are essentially telling many people they can't even play the game they bought.