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  1. #241
    Player scaevola's Avatar
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    Scaevola
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    Asura
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    THF Lv 99
    The most charitable reading of your argument is that FFXI was always shitty, but we (meaning you) didn't realize it because the leveling game kept you from having to discard your fantasies about how good the max level game must be.
    (3)
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  2. #242
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    I don't see how anyone can do a better job to make the game than it is if you have the limitations of a game engine made more than 11 years ago.

    That's why Atari, Nintendo, Super Nintendo, Psp, Play station 1 & 2, and all other old consoles were discontinued.
    (0)
    Last edited by Daemon; 09-28-2013 at 03:26 AM.

  3. #243
    Player scaevola's Avatar
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    Scaevola
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    Asura
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    THF Lv 99
    Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.

    oh wait

    More seriously, the power jump caused by SoA gear, particularly out of Delve, that's rendered the entire past game moot and put all focus on half-implemented Adoulin represents a specific, purely editorial design decision that has nothing to do with hardware.
    (5)
    Last edited by scaevola; 09-28-2013 at 03:24 AM.
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  4. #244
    Player FrankReynolds's Avatar
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    Mrkillface
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    Cerberus
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    MNK Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.

    oh wait

    More seriously, the power jump caused by SoA gear, particularly out of Delve, that's rendered the entire past game moot and put all focus on half-implemented Adoulin represents a specific, purely editorial design decision that has nothing to do with hardware.
    This.

    It has nothing to do with hardware / software limitations. It has everything to do with the mode / pace of progression they chose to implement. Which by the way, was more work than implementing a slower more reasonably thought out mode of progression (ie. merit points and / or much smaller leaps in gear stats vs. adding a stupid iLevel stat).
    (0)

  5. #245
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    None of this, however, has ANYTHING to do with leveling, by which I mean the process by which players gain experience points through the most efficient means available. We all think the game is way too thin right now but that's absolutely a result of SoA, not the MMO vestigial organ of XP.
    You are looking at a moment where the majority of the playerbase has already surpassed the leveling phase of the game. Unless SE rollsback all characters and start everyone again at ground Zero then at this point of the game in order to bring those who are starting a new account up to par where the majority is at things like FC to 99 in less than half a day exist.

    Lack of people to make exp parties happen. The only way to keep people who are at the inevitable question interested is to keep pumping out repeatables, limited time base events to keep you staring at the middle of the computer screen and play.
    (0)

  6. #246
    Player scaevola's Avatar
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    Scaevola
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    Asura
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    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    You are looking at a moment where the majority of the playerbase has already surpassed the leveling phase of the game. Unless SE rollsback all characters and start everyone again at ground Zero then at this point of the game in order to bring those who are starting a new account up to par where the majority is at things like FC to 99 in less than half a day exist.

    Lack of oeople to make exp parties happen. The only way to keep people who are at the inevitable question interested is to keep pumping out repeatables, limited time base events to keep you staring at the middle of the computer screen and play.
    If FFXI had introduced quick-ish leveling at the start, maybe not Abyssea quick, but let's say your first max-level character in....2 months or so for most players interested in logging in for maybe a dozen hours a week, one of two things would have happened:

    1. FFXI would have had a MUCH richer and well-developed endgame for most of its history. Late ToAU-level by the time RoZ came out.

    OR

    2. The game would have flamed out Warhammer-style almost immediately.


    Either way, it's an open question as to whether everyone involved not named sage sundi would not have been better off. The fact that this huge toad sitting athwart our clear view of the meat of the game was abruptly swept aside in 2010 shows HUGE confidence on the part of SE regarding what they had in mind, and I think it's a tremendous credit to Abyssea and what followed that so many people who never would have kept playing at 75 if they'd actually gotten there and saw what was waiting for them* ponied up and happily kept playing at the new caps; the content, for the first time, was crunchy, accessible, engaging, surprising, and fun! Cue SoA!



    *smart, well-written endgame posters who had completed everything short of AV/PW used to have fights, honest to God fights, about the most efficient ways/setups to kill Greater Colibri. I mean, take a step back and think about that.
    (1)
    Last edited by scaevola; 09-28-2013 at 03:53 AM.
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  7. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    If FFXI had introduced quick-ish leveling at the start, maybe not Abyssea quick, but let's say your first max-level character in....2 months or so for most players interested in logging in for maybe a dozen hours a week, one of two things would have happened:

    1. FFXI would have had a MUCH richer and well-developed endgame for most of its history. Late ToAU-level by the time RoZ came out.

    OR

    2. The game would have flamed out Warhammer-style almost immediately.


    Either way, it's an open question as to whether everyone involved not named sage sundi would not have been better off.
    Only if the DEV team had enough time to produce rich content. Game programming is a race between players and the team creating the content. We are playing a game of cat and mouse nonstop because this is a never ending MMORPG.

    These repeatables, time limited events, horrible drop rates and tough progression standards set within the game in reality are excuses to stall you.
    (0)
    Last edited by Daemon; 09-28-2013 at 03:53 AM.

  8. #248
    Player scaevola's Avatar
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    Scaevola
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    Asura
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
    Only if the DEV team had enough time to produce rich content. Game programming is a race between players and the team creating the content. We are playing a game of cat and mouse nonstop because this is a never ending MMORPG.

    These repeatables, time limited events, horrible drop rates and tough progression standards set within the game in reality are excuses to stall you.
    This game has been tremendously materially rewarding since Magians was put in. Pulse stuff was hard to get, but that's because it was the jackpot on a slot machine that was free to play and paid out every single pull.

    We loved it in 2010-2012, but are leaving in droves through SoA. Effort-reward is not the issue.

    (ps if FFXI were set to cataclysmically tank in 2003, it would have received the same redoubling of effort XIV got)
    (0)
    tandava crackows + chocobo jig + animated flourish = prouesse ring

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    This game has been tremendously materially rewarding since Magians was put in. Pulse stuff was hard to get, but that's because it was the jackpot on a slot machine that was free to play and paid out every single pull.

    We loved it in 2010-2012, but are leaving in droves through SoA. Effort-reward is not the issue.

    (ps if FFXI were set to cataclysmically tank in 2003, it would have received the same redoubling of effort XIV got)
    This is the problem with an 11 year game. What level range was the content back in 2010-2012?
    (0)

  10. #250
    Player Rustic's Avatar
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    Rustic
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    Ragnarok
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    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by scaevola View Post
    Well, for one thing, you could eliminate (or at least provide an end-run around) the often frustrating and alienating XP grind that limits people from experiencing the content already in place.
    Not only did they eliminate it, they managed to eliminate most of the reasons the zones said levels existed for in the process. And the reasons people even hung around in the starting cities.

    I mean, I regularly have to explain to newbie people capped at level 50 why fame matters or how to get to anywhere save Gusgen Mines and Crawler's Nest. The incentives to explore, to actually be in the game world were obliterated with Abyssea. Because little blue boxes and a L30 entry limit.
    (4)
    Old-time player, new-time character- Ragnarok server.

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