Originally Posted by
Slaxx
You've had parties full of 99s that all stayed in Abby for hours without leaving? This seems unlikely. It seems more like you are creating a "frictionless environment" for your mathematical model, something that doesn't actually exist but is useful for getting ideal results. Unfortunately your ideal results are widely off the mark when it comes to the real world.
Is it really that hard to believe or are you so that stubborn to the point that nothing is possible in your eyes? There are people who actually can tell the difference between a good party and a bad one, who can actually stay in one party for hours if the progress is that good.
Yes it is possible to level to 99 in one day, I have never disputed that. I disputed your overblown claim that it could be done in 6 hours (whether you start from 1, as was implied in your initial claim, or from 30 as you later backtracked to).
Initial claim that I also agreed with you on your comments, admitted that I made a quick response generalizing how fast you can reach to 99 but also stated that the point I was making in general was that leveling too fast because of abby ruined the game, rather than strip down every single small detail and blow it up so that we can sit here all day arguing over who is right and who is wrong, I said 6 hours, you said 8-12, if 8 hours im only 2 hours off from your calculation, how is this being an overblown claim? And Yes for all the people reading our argument I already said the point I was trying to make was that people having the ability to level to max level 99 extremely fast is why i believe in the things ive said
Yes it is possible to get 5-9k plasm per run (more if you're really well geared and coordinated). I also agree that on the same day you could get a boss KI or even more than one. What I'm saying is that YOU didn't do that on the first day Delve went live.
Im not the only person on the entire server to get a delve weapon on the first day, several other people got one before me, Delve is really not as hard as you make it sound, are you really that hopeless? or you just cant accept the fact that there are end game players who were prepared when the event went live.
I agree why spend weeks and months doing content that is between 5 and 9 years old for a prestige piece that doesn't have much prestige any more. It's time to move on from R/M/E, the fact that the developers have continued to try and make old (some of it incredibly old by the standards of an MMO) content relevant is part of the reason we have effectively one endgame event right now (look I just addressed the actual point of this thread).
Whether the content is incredibly old doesnt matter, its the fact that developers made certain things extremely time consuming, requires so much effort that people who decided to put in the time for it do in fact have the right to feel disappointed when something stronger, is considered the new status of "End Game" yet doesnt even require a tenth of the effort that the previous old "End game" content required. It makes you look back at the amount of time you wasted over an item you thought would be the best. If endgame content is meant to be this easy then this should have done with all other content from the start
In the early days of abyssea RDMs were still necessary for refresh. In the early days when people only had one or 2 atma slots, very few atma, and the ones they had weren't as powerful as what we have now Refresh was still important. As we gained access to more, and more powerful atma,as well as refresh from sub-jobs, the yes, RDM moved to the background. After literally years as the must have job for any and all events from xp to endgame this was quite a shock, but guess what? The world changes every day. It's time to move on. Today we are back in a place where RDM is once again usefull for certain fights for its high enfeebling skill, not all fights but some. It is like most other jobs, useful in some situations, not so much in others. (Protip: even before abby a lot of mages were /SCH for sublimation making Refresh obsolete already)
The world indeed does change everyday, I dont expect the world to stay the same that would be boring, but we are not talking about real life, we are talking about a video game where changes being made gives people like me a reason to express my opinion on why I and others feel an unbalance of things. If not one person in the world expressed their opinions, how would we ever learn from each other? How would the devs know how the fanbase feels about their decisions and make an effort to generalize the majority of what people want and fix whats made broken?
I'm not sure how alliances being primarily for bosses and now being for xp as well is a problem. The paradigm has shifted, in fact it shifted years ago. It's time to move on.
Well lets see, is really necessary to have 18 people kill 1 level 15-17 monster if the 18 people in party are level 25+? What skill do you gain from that? Quantity of Quality?
Not every HNM was changed to a trigger spawn, only the original kings (turtle/dragon/behemoth). The rest are still timed spawn. What killed HNM was obsoleting the vast majority of there drops. It's called progress. The fact that the drops from 7 year old content were (and are) still "best-in-slot" in certain situations to me is a problem with this game that is now finally being addressed.
Ok exactly why are we arguing about this in full detail? Another quick response comment i made to avoid writing a 3,000 character page which should have been taken with a grain of salt, I just said that back in the day it was fun, popular, Every event has its good and bad side, the fact that SE knew people had fun doing this event but had to change it for several reasons, flaws, RMT, Hacks, whatever else you want to throw in to waste more time and make another small detail blown up into a big drama piece. Do you see HNM LS anymore? Yes i know we are going way back to several years but these were very big and popular back then and was considered "The End Game" event, whats wrong with me commenting on history?
I agree Skirmish was made obsolete to quickly. Part of this was the scarcity of the entry items when it was relevant and the very short period of time before Delve was released. If I had to guess I would say that Delve was meant to be released on expansion day and was delayed, that delay caused the problems we now see. If they had been released together (and Skirmish entry items been as available as they are now) the "gear progression" concept would have been a bit more clear. But this is purely speculation.
Something we can finally both can agree on
VW gear (like many pieces of gear from pre-Adoulin content) is still situationally useful. For any given job Bayld gear is going to be good in a few spots and not so good in others. The best analogy for Bayld gear would be the abyssea base sets (perle/teal/aurore), they aren't the absolute best but they can even the playing field for people that arent sporting the previously best gear. (Note: 15 tags is 4 days worth of tags not one. I agree that they can be used in one day - I've used far more than 15 in one day myself - and you can certainly earn enough bayld for multiple pieces doing various reives in one day. Just wanted to clarify that that many tags is a multiple day investment.)
And im not saying VW gear is completely useless, however when you compare the 2 events, VW VS Delve, is it really fair that through limitations, quests, the amount of time we had to spend on VW event to make progress obtaining items worth the time and effort compared to how easy it is with Delve? There are people i see everyday that have given up on farming items such as Coruscanti for the fact that they killed this boss more than 2-3k times and still havent gotten a single dagger, me personally ive done qilin over 2,000 times and still never got it, yet had the opportunity to watch several other people get the dagger more than once, dedicated less time and effort, pulse it in my face, And how am I wrong to point out that this a serious flaw in how this system works? Do you think im the only person who feels this way?
Food has always made a difference. I never said it didn't. The point I was making is that in xp parties very few people (to my experience) used food. Again, you may live in this ideal "frictionless environment" where everyone is at the top of there game, eating food, etc. at all times. I play in the "real world" where some people are lazy, or forget, or just don't care.
But there was no point in making that comment to me as if what i said was wrong when the first thing i said earlier was that "temp items promoted laziness and gave people a reason not to use food", then i stated my opinions on the downside of why this was an issue. Do you really think I live in some fantasy world and not know what the real world is like? People choose to be Lazy, But there are things out there in the world that promote success, teaches people valuable skills, and before when you played in low man parties these values were much more obvious. And to some of us oldschool players we find it amusing that people are given the ability to be more powerful through the use of food yet being spoiled through quick fixes like Temp items throughout the majority of the leveling process today doesnt help teach any value other than giving players a reason not to be responsible, and please lets not take this any further, a good portion of food with decent stats does not cost a fortune to buy
BLM was obsolete around level 50 when the ToAU xp camps were worked out. It was obsolete even lower (30? 35?) when the WotG xp camps were discovered. I agree that sometimes RDM and BLM shared healing duty as a compromise but that doesn't make it a good idea. Little xp might be better than no xp, but sometimes not by much and the risks you take are much greater (and this is not a situation where greater risk = greater reward)
Yes we both have different opinions on this, You may believe its not worth the risk but to some of us who wanted to reach goals faster did it anyways and learned new aspects of survival and how to utilize different gears and play at different camps with unique party setups in situations where we had to compromise with whatever jobs we had available.
Some people are capable of organizing parties, some aren't (this may be preference or ability). Personally I am not an organizer, I've done it a few times but I am able to recognize it is not my strength. I can follow instructions, I can point out where people are coming up short, I am an excellent NCO or lieutenant, I am not a leader. Also if i joined an xp party back "in the day" and the leader was wearing trash gear (yes on occasion I am an "elitist snob") then I'd leave. If the party was organized by a completely sub-optimal job and they weren't getting the right other jobs to make it even remotely successful. then I'd leave. Even starting your own parties was no guarantee of success.
Anyone is capable of anything, I never was the type to organize parties when i first started, but as the world change, people learn to change, adapt to new changes, we all have the capacity to do whatever we put our minds to. not being able to recognize your strength doesnt mean you will never learn, thats why practice makes perfect, Im the type of person who usually doesnt pay attention where im going until im there, I too can follow directions, not always the best on every occassion. Ive been called an elitist snob on rare occassions by people who make snap judgments over misunderstanding my intentions or jump to make a conclusion of what they think i am, maybe because my english is bad sometimes i tend to say things that i have in my mind that is totally different in meaning than it came out to be.
For the love of FSM why would you want to level in the Dunes? The only thing that made that place even remotely acceptable is that that's where everyone leveled from 12-18. Everything about it sucked. EVERYTHING. Qufim was nearl;y as bad but was at least acceptable. The Maze? I've been playing since NA PS2 release and I have never once xp'd there. I'm sure it's fun and all but i was (literally) always invited to other places when I had my flag up.
The point is not about loving the dunes or any other map, the point was people were able to enjoy more than just 2-3 maps of the entire game for exping. Admit it, right now a good majority of people and again not all, tend to level up to 10 outside of home nation, then head to gusgen mines til 30 then hit abby.. Where as before all of that people actually had to go explore the entire vana world and look up mobs at certain levels and know where to exp
SC/NB is the "101 stuff" that people are missing out on at lower levels because it isn't relevant to endgame any more. I am assuming you never played pre-abyssea because so many of the things you say imply it. SC/MB was dead years before abby. I'm not sure what part about this you are missing but once ToAU came out and squishy pink birds became the target of choice those days were over.
Yes i know that, Im not stupid, I wasnt generalizing (Only before Abby) I only stated small points throughout the history of updates and expansions, never did i cover every single update because it would impossible to write every single change, cause and effect for every single update
Even with Refresh (from any source, do food and the spell stack? I'm honestly not sure) a BLM (or any mage for that matter) is limited by there MP pool. Every time a mage is on there knee the party is slowed down. That's why BLMs were sidelined long, long before abyssea. This is another reason I call into question how long you've been playing. Be honest, did you take a 5 year break and are just remembering what things used to be like? Are you the crotchety old man screaming "Get off my lawn"?
RDM Food refresh and the spell refresh does not stack up, however bard song and refresh do.
To be honest yes I did take a break after ToAu was released, I returned last year and had to start all over a brand new account being the fact that back then if you didnt pay after 3 months your account got erased. When I did return I was overwhelmed by so many of the changes that yes I do have alot of reason to state my opinions of what i remember about the old FFXI and how it use to be compared to now. Today it is easier to make gil, faster to level any job to 99, able to quest way faster than before, able to solo things on your own rather than depend on several people to finish missions, etc. I had to relearn a good portion of the game all over yet there were many things that was left the same and this is why i was able to get around the game faster than the average normal players who didnt play back in the old days when the game was much harder. And the hardcore skills learned from the old days never die, this is why i know how to play several jobs with greater understanding. You may not know me ingame because we are not on the same server, but it is very rare for me to see alot of people with the same techniques/ skills that people had several years ago than today and this is why i posted my thoughts. Not everyone will or has to agree with me, but here is a fact, if it was up to the people, im sure a good majority of the people would want the game to be even way more easier than it is now, people will never be satisfied with what they got, you can give a man a cookie but then he ask for a glass of milk too. Im not saying the entire concept of abby destroyed the game, im just saying that there are some flaws that shouldnt be there to begin with. And no MMORPG is suppose to be designed to skip through to the end unless it has a failing economy struggling to keep the playerbase interested. Because in less than half a year, I already completed all assault missions, several missions near complete end, several jobs to 99, and im also one of those players who can agree with posts like Zumi made stating that we need new content. Well New Content is a quick fix to keep people interested for how long? Rather than releasing quick fixes, why not go back and actually listen to what the player base is saying rather than ignoring us and fix whats broken and put a little more effort into balancing the game rather than leave the flaws the way they are? Make things that became totally irrelevant or useless valuable again or remove it and replace it.
No one content should be made to put all other content out of its place, It should be made to blend in with the rest of the pieces so that the entire game is a whole. And if you were really paying attention to what ive been trying to say the whole time then you would see that my intentions of sharing my opinion was about how certain flaws and updates have made the game lose alot of valuable quality
Again people not using food in an xp party predates temp items by years. It was so common in fact that seeing someone use food in an xp party was noteworthy. Using food in endgame is, of course a different story. Food can make a noticeable difference in average damage over the long term, it will not result in a massive difference in damage. That is exaggeration.
Food alone doesnt make a massive Difference in damage, however it does make a difference and its little details like these that can add up to greater outcomes, meaning, with the right gear, food, skill, strategy, knowledge you can be doing way better than an average person who just doesnt care
I will agree with your points about farming for gear in the pre-abby days. I personally remember farming for weeks to get the gil I needed to buy gear and spells to get my RDM (1st job) from 30 - 45. But I gave a shit about what I brought to the table. Most people don't and never did. The game has changed. Why would I bring gear to keywhore a party. If I'm doing that I'm doing it from 30 - 99, I'm not going to suddenly bust out my perle gear at 78 and pretend I can play with the big boys. In fact I've never seen anyone do that, in fact I've been offered the chance and turned it down. Not because I didn'y have gear (I did) but because I was a bit under skilled and I signed on as a keywhore, not a directly contributing member.
Yes how long have you been playing compared to many of the people you see on your server who hasnt played as long as you? So you have high standards? You have different knowledge, training, expectations than others, I get it. You may not care about what you bring to the table but some of us do because we are serious about how we perform in parties, You would be surprised at how many people I see dont even have or use multiple sets of gear during battle. I almost see no mages with even -pdt gear, and its really sad because we did learn this a long time ago in the old school parties, the importance of having the gear for DD and mages, Why do i need to waste 150mp to raise the DD that dies if he could have survived long enough for me to heal him rather than taking so much damage so fast that its impossible to keep him alive to begin with? Thats fail.
What about Mages? Why mage need to die if they are not smart enough to control hate and wear -pdt when mob agro? its it really that hard to make a macro for even 4 pieces of -pdt gear it only takes a quick second to switch over. Fail again...
Why on earth would any DD attack a mob who knows they cannot handle it and expect mages to be a miracle healer? Again fail... Seriously this is not even protip, its common sense....
You may not bust out your pearle armor at level 78 and think no one else would ever do and to say you've never seen it done again makes me question what kind of server are you on? Seriously? If you leveled a dagger wielding job to 99, max dagger on that 99 job, obviously when you switch over to another dagger wielding job, the skill is already capped therefore you dont need to run out and skill up enough to reach the ability of being able to deal dmg to mobs in abby at level 78..
Do I think it's fair that 12 people are working so 6 others can leech xp? No. That's why I don't stay in those parties. If you do you have no-one to blame but yourself.
Well we all know you have no control or say in the matter when you join a party and the leader is the one with the several dualbox characters. Why should i blame myself for joining a party that i had no clue what the situation was before entering to begin with? Or why should I blame myself when im not one who made it that way? We should be giving blame to irresponsible people for their mistakes, not to the people who did no wrong. This really is the problem with todays society... too much drugs? Whats going on that people cant tell the difference between common sense?
I will re-iterate my previous point - Bayld gear is the cruor gear of Adoulin.It is meant to level the playing field for those that don't have the previously best gear so they can participate in new content after investing a minimal amount of time. A lot of old gear trumps Bayld gear, it's just there to set a new par.
And there is nothing wrong with that however, again its too easy to obtain. Sadly I had to sell some of the gear I invested millions of gil into because there is just no need for it compared to the stats on adoulin gear.
Why are you basing your staff of choice on its base damage? For a staff this would be its least relevant stat. If you are meleeing on SCH in any serious endgame content so you can show off your awesome Shattersoul numbers there's nothing I can do to help you (and let's be real I wasn't trying to help you anyway, I'm trying to help people who might believe what you're saying). (A couple questions for people that actually care - does the Macc/MAB on Soothsayer affect a SNMs BPs? if not I would say that just by eyeballing Plenitas is still better. If it does then Plenitas got smoked, you apparently have Soothsayer, so what exactly is your problem? Either way you've got the best between those 2. If your beef is that you spent so much time working toward Plenitas and now it's obsolete then (just like I say to everyone that bitches about R/E/M being obsolete) get over it and move on. Getting Plenitas gave you something to work toward, you got it, and then got something better. How is this a problem?)
Fair enough, dmg on staff is for scholar yes, Shattersoul yes, However to show off at endgame events? No. For soloing yes. For abby a major plus, You can do 13k damage on Mikey at worm camp with Scholar selfskillchain, I dont know much about summoner right now as i havent played the job since ToaU expansion to give you my opinion but you can increase the INT on soothsayer to surpass Plenitas Virga and obviously it can be upgraded to have massive amounts of MAB, dmg is incredibly higher than PV. In my opinion, the only beneficial reason to use Plenitas virga is for the Haste.
My concern was why did we just waste all of our time to get what we thought was the best staff in game only to be replaced with something better that took almost no effort whatsoever to get?? Having things easy is one thing, Having it incredibly easy to the point where you feel certain things are pointless why even have it this way is another..
You may not care about REM people complaining, but i understand why they are complaining, I dunno if you have REM but once you go through what others have had to go through...
Yes we all heard about Delve before it came out. However the Developers did not give away all the secrets to how Delve was going to be done, how the various gimmicks were to be exploited etc. I followed the thread on BG closely, I know T1-T5 wins were being reported the first day, I know that some people were getting Delve weapons the first day. I never said that was impossible. I said YOU didn't get those things accomplished on the first day, huge difference. Many of the first wins were being done in long-fight zombie style runs. That eliminates the possibility of spending hours farming plasm (the first plasm farming strategies were posted 3 days after release on BG). I repeat: I'm not saying it was impossible, I'm saying it was impossible for YOU. The kkind of player that could get a plasm weapon on day one is not the kind of player who would be here 6 weeks later pissing and moaning about this kind of bullshit.
Again its responses like these that make you wanna hate someone, but ill be the better person. Why ever do you need to single me out and judge me? Im a person who can tolerate alot of things but seriously you are getting there. And why ever am i trying to be nice and respond to your negative attacks trying to agree with you, share opinions and get to know someone who just flat out is being rude, self centered and stubborn? What is it that you have against me when we dont even know each other? Are you really that much of a diva queen to throw shade at someone you just met and feel the need to read me out on points that has no necessary reason to put this amount of effort in debating over in the first place? To take all day to argue over blowing up details into a big choir of dramatic nonsense to prove some kind of point that you know how to troll people? I never came here to piss and moan about anything, Answering someones Post with an opinion is one thing, Creating a post myself and pissing and moaning about it is another... get it straight
Your final list of the failings of the player base is nothing new. There have always been bad players at the level cap (whether the cap is 75 or 99 makes no difference). There will always be bad players at the level cap (or the gear cap under the new gear progression that has been implemented). Nothing has changed, another fine example of the "rose-colored glasses" I've referenced so many times before.
Your final paragraph defending yourself is just awesome. You must be the anointed saviour of FFXI, never AFK more than 5 minutes, always brings food, etc. etc.etc. That's great. Congratulations.
Again self centered, Rude, Judgmental, Has no ability to accept the fact that there are other decent players out in the world who has manners, has consideration, Do you need a spotlight above your head to make known to the world that you know FFXI better than anyone with an opinion? And that you are far superior than anyone else who wants to participate in the free forum discussions?
PS Judges sit on benches not thrones. I am not judging you, I am pointing out where I either disagree with your opinion, or can flat out call you out on lies and exaggeration. (a final Protip: Opinions can be wrong,. Facts can directly contradict them. The idea that every opinion is sacred in its potential to be correct is a horrifying lesson modern society has tried to force on people. Sometimes people are flat out wrong no matter how much they believe they are right.)
Oh Really?
1. Your final paragraph defending yourself is just awesome. You must be the anointed saviour of FFXI (Sarcastic judgment)
2. I'm saying it was impossible for YOU. The kkind of player that could get a plasm weapon on day one is not the kind of player who would be here 6 weeks later pissing and moaning about this kind of bullshit. (Assumptional judgment that you ever so dearly try so hard to state as fact so that you can feel the need to be a superior bully?)
PPS. I have no idea what x12 Qilin has to do with anything but I might have missed some sort of subtle nuance in you responses. Or you might be editing previous responses again. It can be hard to tell.
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