Any chance we can get some low-man plasm earning options?

[Mokeil]

There are several methods available. All of them have been listed and you dismiss them as not good enough. When you say that 6 people shouldn't be able to make plasm as quickly as 18, do you mean that you want methods that allow 6-man groups to make 99% as much plasm as 18-man groups? Do you mean that 6-man groups should be given an easy-mode delve which doesn't require endgame gear to farm?

There are three methods that have been mentioned so far - farming shards, farming the Matamata in the field, and farming a fracture (with an option for the Matamata there as well). I've only flatly dismissed one of those as non-viable - farming shards. I believe I've offered a solid reason why the second option - farming the Mata on the field - isn't viable (limited spawn).

This leaves only one method with any merit (not "several"): farming a fracture. But are you then trying to convince me that one method - that by all given suggestions requires an high-end PLD or someone willing to zombie in order to actually be viable - is something I should just quietly accept? That is not likely to happen.

Am I wanting "99% as much plasm as 18-man groups"? No, of course not. A decent 18 man pickup-up plasm farm can earn around 5,000 to 6,000 plasm. I don't think it's too much to ask that 6 people then be able to earn, say, around 2,000 across that same time frame. One-third the people, one-third the plasm. Zagen did mention that amount earned, but again, fracture farming with a PLD/Zombie is the one and only method I've seen suggested that has merit, and this thread is about trying to get more than one option.

(To forestall the inevitable: Farming the Mata in the field, yes, can earn around that much, with a bonus mix of airlixirs, to boot. But, again, that one NM in the field is not a viable option due to the limited access.)

Lastly, to address your comment about "easy mode": Asking a nearly unkillable PLD (or entirely killable zombie) to babysit all the big nasty NMs while everyone else slaughters mooks is about as easy mode as is gets. It is not at all challenging, merely tedious. Yet another reason to want more than one viable option to earn plasm on a reasonable scale.

I gotta disagree on the extremely limited window about Twilight gear.

Ah, you know? This was a total brain-fart on my part and I take back what I said about it being extremely limited. I had the twilight stuff confused with the gear from Fiat Lux. My apologies.

[Taint2]

2000 plasma is 40 mobs....surely you can kill 1 mob a minute with 6.

Here is your set up:

DDx3,BRD,COR,WHM

BRD pulls, if NM in the way they sack it. Stay in the entry room and pull from both sides. Unless all the NMs are contained in one room, then go opposite. I'd recommned Mori since you get plenty of mobs in the main room close to the start and also plenty pop to the south.

No reason you can't kill 40 mobs with 6 players and wouldn't even need anything special to do so.


Should Kill Mata inside fracture as well. 500 easy points that takes 8 minutes max. 2000 is seeming way to low for a pty of 6 in Mori.

[Yinnyth]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups. 6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve. Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.

[Taint2]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups. 6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve. Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.

I was about to say, the best groups get 70k a run!

[Mokeil]

This whole thread is you asking for things you already have. There are sources of plasm for lowman groups.

That's just it - there have only been three methods suggested, and it seems to me two of those methods aren't reliable. No one has refuted my arguments about that, so those points still stand. That leaves one source of plasm for low-man groups. In fact, only one person so far has stated they believe it can be done without a PLD or Zombie.

6 man groups can make 2k plasm in a delve.

Actually, I'm curious about this - for the two who've mentioned this number as attainable (Zagen and Taint) have you guys actually been able to earn this amount as a six-man team, or is this speculation? A one mob per minute pace seems a bit ambitious for six people if they don't already have delve gear - even if you account for 500 from killing the Mata (which also takes a delve h2h).

I'm not saying its not doable eventually, but it definitely sounds like something you'll be needing lots of delve gear already to do. Needing delve gear to make getting delve gear viable is a nasty little catch-22, and wreaks of poor content design.

Why you would want to do 15 delves to get 30k points is beyond me, however. Especially when there are groups that are so good they can make over 10k points, and don't even get me started on how many points a boss kill is worth.

For the record, I don't mind 18 man farming runs. Even a mediocre one can earn 5k, and good ones (as you've said) can earn up to 10. (Do the mega-bosses really give up to 70? Great googly-moogly!)

However, personally speaking, I have three reasons to not mind doing 15 of an event just to get 30k plasm, so long as they can be low-manned. But since this isn't a story-time thread I'll not bore you all with them. I know others will have their own reasons, as well.

Suffice it to say, I simply feel that there should be more than one way (one way that requires you to already have delve gear to be able to do, even).

[Zagen]

That's just it - there have only been three methods suggested, and it seems to me two of those methods aren't reliable. No one has refuted my arguments about that, so those points still stand. That leaves one source of plasm for low-man groups. In fact, only one person so far has stated they believe it can be done without a PLD or Zombie.

Farm up the beads with shout groups locking them. There you go 0 NMs. I'd rather just find a PLD or sac person but whatever floats your boat.

Actually, I'm curious about this - for the two who've mentioned this number as attainable (Zagen and Taint) have you guys actually been able to earn this amount as a six-man team, or is this speculation? A one mob per minute pace seems a bit ambitious for six people if they don't already have delve gear - even if you account for 500 from killing the Mata (which also takes a delve h2h).

I'm not saying its not doable eventually, but it definitely sounds like something you'll be needing lots of delve gear already to do. Needing delve gear to make getting delve gear viable is a nasty little catch-22, and wreaks of poor content design.

Volatile Matamata takes 2 decently geared MNKs (non Delve) with Hundred Fists + Formless Strikes to take it down in 1 round so yeah that's doable.

4 man for "lulz" (DRK, DRG, WHM, BRD): 1,050 (to be fair got lucky on NM spawns)
6 man "serious" attempt ( Delve PUP, PLD, WHM x2, DRG, COR setup if I remember correctly): 2,250 No NMs
11 man run with Matamata kill (I remember MNK x2, BRD, COR, SCH, PLD, WHM, DRK not sure what the rest were): 3,150

On the 11 man I was the only delve weapon player (DRK) the 2 MNKs both had 90 Vere. I held the NM on DRK then they came in to Hundred Fists + Formless Strikes and it died in 1 round.

Something to note that's a big value of fractures is the NMs can be slept so while it does involve sac pulling a way to grab a group of monsters from a NM is to have the BRD sleep the NM bring the links to the group AoE sleep them run back to the NM and wake it to kill the BRD. The normal monsters while having no hate won't despawn so be careful where they get slept.

For the record, I don't mind 18 man farming runs. Even a mediocre one can earn 5k, and good ones (as you've said) can earn up to 10. (Do the mega-bosses really give up to 70? Great googly-moogly!)

However, personally speaking, I have three reasons to not mind doing 15 of an event just to get 30k plasm, so long as they can be low-manned. But since this isn't a story-time thread I'll not bore you all with them. I know others will have their own reasons, as well.

Suffice it to say, I simply feel that there should be more than one way (one way that requires you to already have delve gear to be able to do, even).

As I pointed out and many others have as well there is more than 1 way to farm plasm however none will be as efficient as running 18 man parties in there and that's how it should be in my opinion. You're putting artificial restrictions up by saying "without PLD/zombie/sac", you're wanting to do an event designed for a full alliance, of course you're going to have to use tricks to small man it or pray on luck but I did enough of that in NNI personally.

[Mokeil]

Thanks for providing those numbers, Zagen - especially the job breakdowns. Definite food for thought. (Also, good to see DRG and PUP getting a mention. Yay, pet jobs!)

Something to note that's a big value of fractures is the NMs can be slept so while it does involve sac pulling a way to grab a group of monsters from a NM is to have the BRD sleep the NM bring the links to the group AoE sleep them run back to the NM and wake it to kill the BRD. The normal monsters while having no hate won't despawn so be careful where they get slept.

Now, this is a very big thing! I'll not lie, we never thought to try to sleep the NMs, and I don't imagine it's something many people know at all. Knowing they can be slept in order to stagger the incoming wave of mobs (and affect placement so you're not waiting for the NMs to wander off again) will be a very big help for any one attempting to low-man a fracture.

You're putting artificial restrictions up by saying "without PLD/zombie/sac", you're wanting to do an event designed for a full alliance, of course you're going to have to use tricks to small man it or pray on luck but I did enough of that in NNI personally.

You do have a bit of a point when it comes to just nutting up and dealing, and I never said we weren't doing just that. However, it can take time to be able to field an Ochain PLD, and if PLD isn't your cup of tea then building up to that point is going to suck a lot of fun out of the game. This doesn't apply just to my group, but to any low-man group. I don't think it at all unreasonable to ask for some type of low-man event that allows a bit more flexibility in job choice to do even moderately at, is all.

Now, I do allow that that particular part of my complaint (needing a relic/empy PLD) may also have something to do with the laughably huge disparity between the unkillable PLD and the very best that any other tank job can bring to the table, but I feel that's more a discussion for a job balance thread.

Also, while I may not personally be a fan of Zombies or deliberate sac pulling, I've never said they weren't viable tactics for the strategy of farming in a fracture.

[Zagen]

Now, this is a very big thing! I'll not lie, we never thought to try to sleep the NMs, and I don't imagine it's something many people know at all. Knowing they can be slept in order to stagger the incoming wave of mobs (and affect placement so you're not waiting for the NMs to wander off again) will be a very big help for any one attempting to low-man a fracture.

This might just be my experience but I've noticed that NMs either take a ridiculously long time to move back to their spawn point or they actually don't roam back. This is helpful because you can use the suggestion of the brd going back to die as instead the brd runs up ahead and drags the NMs into one of the further off hallways. Just make sure the BRD is able to get back so the NM doesn't aggro on reraise though if you have a DRK they could just tractor the BRD.

Now, I do allow that that particular part of my complaint (needing a relic/empy PLD) may also have something to do with the laughably huge disparity between the unkillable PLD and the very best that any other tank job can bring to the table, but I feel that's more a discussion for a job balance thread.

Also, while I may not personally be a fan of Zombies or deliberate sac pulling, I've never said they weren't viable tactics for the strategy of farming in a fracture.

Honestly the trick is finding a PLD who doesn't suck Ochain/Aegis go a long way in hiding a sucky PLD. I joined a few late night groups that actually used Adamas/Delve Shield PLDs and they did fine though to be fair those PLDs were super tanking 2 NMs each and had dedicated healers. Sometimes they died but then again so do Ochain/Aegis PLDs.

[Yinnyth]

This might just be my experience but I've noticed that NMs either take a ridiculously long time to move back to their spawn point or they actually don't roam back.

Having some experience with bad sacs in the fracture, I can attest that they do work their way back to their spawn area after deaggroing, so a sacrifice is only a temporary solution. You need multiple deaths/deaggros, or some other method to keep the enemies out of your hair. There are many ways to do it, though most require well-geared and/or skilled players doing things which they still have a chance to fail. The simplest solution people have devised is to just put on twilight and rack up the exp bill, but I'm sure with some practice and ingenuity, any decent group of 6 players could find a work-around.

And by "decent" I don't mean people with a ToM weapon and empy armor who think their undergeared ass is ready for delve.

[Babygyrl]

I would love this.. But my issue isnt so much lack of a big LS.. my issue is the shitty Wildskeeper reeve clear you need to get the key item.. 100k bayld for temp item to even enter? come on! If more people had this KI to make the item it would be a bit easier to have fracture farms