[dev1143] One-handed and Ranged Weapon Adjustments

[Nebo]

[dev1143] One-handed and Ranged Weapon Adjustments

Status adjustments for one-handed weapons (hand-to-hand weapons included) and ranged weapons will be increased as given below.

The end result is that status adjustments for main-hand weapons will be the same as for two-handed weapons.
One-handed Weapons
Main Weapons Pre-adjustment Post-adjustment
Attack (STR) 50% → 75%
Accuracy (DEX) 50% → 75%

Sub Weapons Pre-adjustment Post-adjustment
Accuracy (DEX) 50% → 75%

Why are dual wield jobs (read not H2H and Ranged Jobs) getting specifically penalized yet again with this update. What is the purpose of giving them the shaft with the STR > ATT ratio in the offhand.

We are already sent to the back of the bus when starting delve because we can only use one delve weapon, and one weak, pre-delve weapon.

2 Handed weapon users don't have to deal with this significant setback, MNK/PUP don't have to deal wit this, Ranged Jobs don't have to deal with this....why do jobs that depend on dual wield (THF DNC NIN BLU BST) continually get the shaft in SoA?

It certainly isn't because any of these jobs are in danger of becoming over powered....so what is it?

[Demon6324236]

I am happy with those changes myself, but eh.

[Kincard]

I'm glad they're changing anything at all, but I don't understand why the Dev Team is still operating under the delusion that one-handed jobs are anything but massively behind two-hander jobs.

In b4 "utility"-give me a tell the next time you need a NIN to Aisha Taxet or a BLU to get Tourbillion resisted by anything.

[Anjou]

God I want Tourbillion, that and Thunderbolt... :<

[Nebo]

I'm glad they're changing anything at all, but I don't understand why the Dev Team is still operating under the delusion that one-handed jobs are anything but massively behind two-hander jobs.

In b4 "utility"-give me a tell he next time you need a NIN to Aisha Taxet or a BLU to get Tourbillion resisted by anything.

This is the real issue. I'm glad they are making these changes, but dual wield jobs are so far behind 2 handers right now, there is really no good reason to have the STR>ATT adjustment only effect the main hand.

They really need to stop looking to the past for reasons not to make updates now. "RDM is too powerful" "THF will steal and hide for gold coins if we give them anything worthwhile" "Dual Wields will far outshine 2 Handers because of attack speed"

Look. Development Bros:

You have already updated the game in several ways that addressed all of these issues and more. You've sufficiently killed everything I just mentioned. Stop making updates based on the past and take a look at what is happening in the game RIGHT NOW.

Let go ....don't fear the past. Embrace the present and make updates for the future. PLEASE.

[darkhorror]

That the boost is nice, but as others have said it didn't solve the problems with 1hand jobs being much weaker than 2hand. One of the problems is the 20% total delay reduction cap, make that cap only effect haste so that the delay reduction from DW makes it go lower than 20%. Right now in a high haste situations you have 1handers with the same reduction as 2hander, and since 2hander is all haste they don't get lowered TP per hit. If you want them to both to be able to get the same total delay reduction get rid of the lowered tp per hit when dual wielding.

Edit: I would suggest just remove the lowering of TP when you use DW.

[Kincard]

It's true that an adjustment of some kind to the haste/DW would be the easiest way to rebalance 1H vs 2H, but it's probably hard to do it while taking into consideration how content will be affected by it. I do recall Matsui mentioning something about adjusting how haste works a while back, but then there's a lot of things that have been said once and then never heard about again.

I can probably do it myself when I find some time, but can any math wizes around here try calculating what would happen if they allowed DW and Martial Arts to be counted outside the 80% delay cap? I think it might be an interesting thing to look at. There's a part of me that thinks that even if I was able to get 50% DW past that 80% haste (That is, total 90% delay reduction) I would still not match up to 2-handers because of greatly inferior weapon skills. I wouldn't mind that though- I do actually think 1-handers should be weaker than 2-handers in the right situations, just not this much.

It should also again be noted that for a lot of the jobs it's not just a question of 1H vs 2H but also problems with how the jobs themselves are designed that have caused them to fall behind even more, that is, NIN, DRG (with no Ryunohige), and BST (if you want to count it). Not sure how PUP is doing with Alternator now. You can possibly toss in RUN with those but I'm less concerned about that one since it's probably going to get lots and lots of updates in the coming months. IIRC THF falls behind DNC nowadays, figured I'd mention that while insignificant things like steal/despoil is getting adjusted. >_>

[darkhorror]

It's true that an adjustment of some kind to the haste/DW would be the easiest way to rebalance 1H vs 2H, but it's probably hard to do it while taking into consideration how content will be affected by it. I do recall Matsui mentioning something about adjusting how haste works a while back, but then there's a lot of things that have been said once and then never heard about again.

I can probably do it myself when I find some time, but can any math wizes around here try calculating what would happen if they allowed DW and Martial Arts to be counted outside the 80% delay cap? I think it might be an interesting thing to look at. There's a part of me that thinks that even if I was able to get 50% DW past that 80% haste (That is, total 90% delay reduction) I would still not match up to 2-handers because of greatly inferior weapon skills. I wouldn't mind that though- I do actually think 1-handers should be weaker than 2-handers in the right situations, just not this much.

This would be very nice for MNK, DNC, and NIN since they all get a lot of delay reduction and DNC has haste samba. But for other jobs who get less or need to use a sub to get DW they need capped magic haste, haste gear and haste samba to be able to break 80% delay reduction. This would fix it for MNK, DNC and NIN as they all would be getting TP much quicker in high haste situations and doing much more DPS from melee. But wouldn't help other 1hand jobs so much.

This is why I would say just get rid of the TP reduction from DW, and keep it how it is right now for MA. That would basically just increase WS frequency for all DW jobs by quite a bit which seems to be the main problem. 2Hand jobs already have extra haste abilities so they are able to get to the 80% reduction cap without losing TP like 1hand and DW. So basically what this would do is make it so both 1hand and 2hand would be able to hit the 80% reduction cap in high haste situations without the 30-40% tp reduction that DW jobs get vs 2hand. MNK should already be alright since they have a much higher melee DPS weapon which keeps up with 2hand. If you want to add something to give them higher TP gain just give them a new kick attack DMG+ delve quality foot piece for use with footwork.

[Kincard]

BLU and THF both have DW3 and they hit the 80% delay cap pretty easily when they're in big groups (assuming they're in the appropriate party), and that's the situation we're talking about anyway.

[darkhorror]

BLU and THF both have DW3 and they hit the 80% delay cap pretty easily when they're in big groups (assuming they're in the appropriate party), and that's the situation we're talking about anyway.

With 30% DW delay reduction, and 68.75% haste(25% from gear 43.75% from spells) that puts you at 78.125% Delay reduction. The problem is that if you remove the cap is that it doesn't really add anything unless you add haste samba. And this seems to be the problem where 2hand have things that add more to haste which puts them at or very close to the cap in the same situation. So they get much more TP over time since both are capped but DW removes a lot of the tp per hit.