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  1. #1
    Player Anjou's Avatar
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    May 2013
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    San d'Oria
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    543
    Character
    Anjou
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 60

    Abyssea + 1 seal system revamp/suggestions.

    With the game leaning more and more towards SoA nowadays, people who haven't quite gotten up to snuff enough to get into those sorts of things are finding it more and more difficult to get the help they need in things such as finding +1 seals for their AF 3 armor. Now to attest to this, I've been stuck on my BLU AF 3 for quite some time since SoA came out. Why do you ask? Because people don't want to take the time to help their fellow linkshell members get their AF 3 seals. This usually leaves players in a stand still due to this new content interfering with getting the proper aid necessary to obtain the needed seals, and personally there aren't enough people to do things like it was months, or even a year ago.

    To help remedy this and give players a break from the monster-killing madness where they could constantly get seals they may or may not want or even need, how about using something that is always just sitting in people's Abyssea KI section?

    Battle Trophies.

    People ask "Anjou, why would you consider having Battle trophies as tradeable KI's that can be redeemed for a corresponding seal?"

    Well it's rather simple really.

    With the Battle trophies being divided up into 5 echelons (1st being the highest and 5th being the lowest) you can trade the trophies for a seal corresponding to that trophy's echelon.

    But wait are people saying that this will make getting armor too easy?

    Nonsense, the Battle Trophies get you an entire armor piece (Comes augmented) for just -1- trophy. Trading 1 trophy for a seal isn't that much of a game breaker. You trade 1 trophy for a piece with a random augment, OR you trade (using bodies as an example) 10 1st echelon trophies for a full 10/10 body seals to + an AF 3 piece.

    Please note this system covers SEALS, not the items required to make the AF 3 piece +2.

    This will get rid of the headache of players doing quests for seals where they almost always get the ones they don't want/need. This system is more effective -because-.

    You can trade the battle trophies to get different echelons, thus different seals.

    Now people will typically be worried about constant swarms of people huddling around the Dominion tacticians getting their seals, HOWEVER to prevent unwanted congestion in zones, jobs will be divided up into the following zones.

    WAR/MNK/THF/RDM/BLM/WHM = Altep's Dominion Tactician.

    PLD/DRK/BST/BRD/RNG/SMN/DNC = Ule's Dominion Tactician.

    SAM/NIN/DRG/BLU/COR/PUP/SCH = Graub's Dominion Tactician.

    This'll have all three areas the (almost) equal amount of player distribution, and thus it allows for less congestion.
    -------------------------------------------------------------


    Common Inquiries concerning this:

    Most people tend to think that having a BST level'd and geared will be your problem solver all the time. This is a wrong answer on so many levels -because- to get a shot at any needed seal drops, you will almost always need a BLM,NIN,BRD,BLU,WHM to proc magic, and even then you might not get your needed seals. But this system allows players to choose what seals they wish to obtain, but ofc they have to kill NM's to get the trophies, so don't think that they'll be getting the seals super easy or without periods of time hunting lower echelon NM's.

    Concerning BST again: Most people also don't want to be a BST, and to ensure that everyone has their options, the battle trophy system allows players to keep their options open because Battle Trophies are a 100% drop off of the NM's that are listed to drop them.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------


    Thoughts?
    (48)

  2. #2
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Oct 2012
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    1,186
    First, and liked.

    Really. Great idea.
    (2)

  3. #3
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    Sep 2012
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    471
    Really can't think of any negative argument, an actual good use for battle trophies.

    I mean really, it's a pretty sound suggestion. There is a plethora of trophy dropping monsters, congestion would be a non-issue. Even if a group was repeatedly killing one monster, there are basically 57 other monsters you could do.

    Actually as I was typing I did think of one possible flaw, and it kinda saddened me. The trade system =/

    I just realized that if you were to kill 1 highest tier enemy, it is worth many many lowest tier trophies. So in essence if you killed a Trophy 1 (for one head seal) you could instead get... (16 feet seals).

    I might make the suggestion of making (hands/feet/legs) come from 2nd tier, and (head/body) all come from 1st tier.

    Or at least some form of happy medium, using tier 1/2/3, 4/5 is probably too low.

    (sorry that I had not thought of that prior to suggestion you post, you can add it to your op and I'll remove it from my post, if you like).
    (0)
    Last edited by Karah; 05-29-2013 at 03:05 PM.

  4. #4
    Player OmnysValefor's Avatar
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    Well..

    Players still wouldn't be falling all over themselves to go kill these nm's for pugs. All this does is enables a person to get into +1 easier. They still have a long road ahead of them, upgrading all that to +2, doing missions and addons, questing worthwhile KIs.

    All this idea would do is make starting/coming back not quite so miserable.

    Last week, I helped a guy kill the doll in altepa. Had to kill him 15 times for 7 seals probably (we had acquired one already). We ended up spending nearly two hours out there.

    It's not fair to say its his fault he came back to the game so late. It is, after all, a game, but neither is it fair that he needs to occupy the time of someone more geared, or shout for pugs, or take chances on bst for every seal he wants.

    Suppose he had 0 trophies, I could simply tell him "Go buy x popset, and I'll gear up ninja". We could get him the ki for many seals for +1, some +2s usually, and maybe some other stuff. It makes the task of the helper easier, makes content a load easier to catch up on*, and everybody wins.

    By catch up on, I mean it gets him through aby on main jobs a little faster, delve shouts still aren't going to want him unless he's a bard. He still needs much +2s (this now hypothetical guy) and won't have much or anything of note from voidwatch, let alone neo-anything.
    (2)

  5. #5
    Player Dragoy's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
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    Bastok
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    1,484
    Character
    Dragoy
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    BRD Lv 66

    €°(((><

    It would be a good use for them indeed.

    However, I don't see why one should not get the +2 empyrean armour upgrade items as well. Not sure how I would balance it out, since some of the creatures who have those items provide you with a 2nd echelon trophy instead of a 1st.

    Not like they are very balanced in the first place (for example, I think that Orthrus might be way less trouble than Fuath usually is, and I'm not even going to mention Xibalba... oops! And while thinking of Orthrus and unbalanced, I get to thinking of the empyrean weapons, and how those monsters are balanced in the way they spawn and whatnot).

    I guess one should need to get at least a 2nd echelon one.

    The amount of required trophies of an echelon for any +1 or +2 upgrade item could be balanced out with some thought, and provide players with an item of their choosing. Yes, it would probably require some tweaks so that one can only get +2 items for defeating monsters from 2nd/1st echelon.
    I don't know if anyone ever really used the current system either way, except for the cure potency enhancing refresh body, so they could simply re-do it, or build 'next to it'.

    Edit: Personally I am able to fell any abyssean beast for the items, so I'm not even thinking of myself here. I do admit that being the collector of stuff that I am, I do collect the empyrean +1, and eventually +2 armour for all the jobs in the game even if I don't even play all of them. I certainly can't say that it would be horrible to have a use for them trophies!


    Similar things have been suggested in the past, to combat the unlucky, and the unfair that is random. Something like obtaining an item for defeating a thing for a certain amount of times. Kind of like saying, okay, you should have it by now... here! Take it!

    I guess they kind of (quite surprisingly) did that with Nyzul II — The NIUAS.
    (0)
    Last edited by Dragoy; 05-29-2013 at 06:56 PM.
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  6. #6
    Player Tarquine's Avatar
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    May 2013
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    Tarquine
    World
    Asura
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    BST Lv 99
    A great idea, which I think can be further augmented by allowing us to then trade +1 Seals for +2 Items (at whatever exchange rate SE see fit). This would make killing NMs with procs still the most time effective way to obtain this gear, but for those less able to make a party etc. still able to get them via a longer process.
    (1)

  7. #7
    Player Psxpert2011's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    San d Oria
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    Character
    Psxpert
    World
    Sylph
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    MNK Lv 99
    SE may go back to their old habits again and take years to make serious updates. Leave us alone to "suck it up" until we accept it all "as is".

    They're playing "Hard to get" and Gods without grace!

    Most like "oldschool MMOs" should be /sarcasm XD

    Would be the time to prepare if your plan to stay or to leave.
    (0)
    "With the POWER of Taru...!"

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  8. #8
    Player Anjou's Avatar
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    543
    Character
    Anjou
    World
    Ragnarok
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    NIN Lv 60
    Sadly it won't be catering to +2 items, as that'd be the game breaker if it did. Also to Karah's comment about people and farming 1st echelon.


    A 1st echelon trophy comes from a mob on tier with Dragua, (The dragon NM in Altep.) while lower tiers come from much easier nm's. Battle trophies have a cap number (25 each) so people can't just spam the trophies until they have every job. You have to stop and exchange them, otherwise you won't be getting anything. It's much easier to farm a lower tier NM for your feet-based trophies rather than spamming an NM like Dragua. This being that most 1st echelon NM's require KI popsets, whereas 5th echelon are usually a pop item or even a timed spawn.

    ------------------

    In conclusion:

    No this is a system to get people's +1 items without all of the hassle of getting seals that they don't need and cluttering up their inventory. If it catered to +2, there would be no chance in hell it'd be taken seriously, remember there needs to be a challenge in the game still, and this system still provides it since you can't just spam a 5th tier nm and trade up to 1st echelon thanks to the trophy cap and vice versa on spamming 1st tier and trading down. If need be, they can eliminate the trading system to make it where you -have- to farm the NM corresponding to the tier, where something has to be sacrificed in order to bring in something new.
    (1)

  9. #9
    Player Anjou's Avatar
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    Anjou
    World
    Ragnarok
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    NIN Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Karah View Post
    Really can't think of any negative argument, an actual good use for battle trophies.

    I mean really, it's a pretty sound suggestion. There is a plethora of trophy dropping monsters, congestion would be a non-issue. Even if a group was repeatedly killing one monster, there are basically 57 other monsters you could do.

    Actually as I was typing I did think of one possible flaw, and it kinda saddened me. The trade system =/

    I just realized that if you were to kill 1 highest tier enemy, it is worth many many lowest tier trophies. So in essence if you killed a Trophy 1 (for one head seal) you could instead get... (16 feet seals).

    I might make the suggestion of making (hands/feet/legs) come from 2nd tier, and (head/body) all come from 1st tier.

    Or at least some form of happy medium, using tier 1/2/3, 4/5 is probably too low.

    (sorry that I had not thought of that prior to suggestion you post, you can add it to your op and I'll remove it from my post, if you like).
    Your concerns are actually excellent in this regard, however all 5 tiers need to be in place due to being 5 pieces of empyrean armor. You can't just use 3 tiers and use 1 for 2 pieces (like 3 being hands and feet, 2 being head and legs) that'd make things too easy and even if this system simplifies seal acquisition, you still have beasties to kill.
    (1)

  10. #10
    Player Anjou's Avatar
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    May 2013
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    San d'Oria
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    543
    Character
    Anjou
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    NIN Lv 60
    Also I -really- apologize for the back to back to back posts here, but here's the trophies and what pieces they correspond with:

    1st echelon = Body seals (The hardest to obtain)
    2nd echelon = Head seals
    3rd echelon = Leg seals
    4th echelon = Hand seals
    5th echelon = Feet seals


    If Square Enix decides to impliment this idea, I can help them with the menu organization:

    When speaking with a dominion tactician (Let's say Altep) she will prompt you on what to do. You can exchange your dominion notes, or battle trophies. Since we're discussing battle trophies, let's go click enter on that option.

    So you open the battle trophy menu, and you see the following options:

    "Claim guerdon"
    "Claim seals"
    "Exchange trophies"

    So you want some seals hmm? Well ok hit the "Claim seals" option and a menu like this will pop up.

    Exchange which trophies?
    "None"
    "5th Echelon (Currently: 19)"
    "4th Echelon (Currently: 1)"
    "3rd Echelon (Currently: 15)"
    "2nd Echelon (Currently: 10)"
    "1st Echelon (Currently: 9)"

    You want some leg seals? Well you have 15 of them, so let's select 3rd Echelon trophies and let's see what comes up.

    "Ravager's Seal: Legs"
    "Tantra Seal: Legs"
    "Raider's Seal: Legs"
    "Estoqueur's Seal: Legs"
    "Goetia Seal: Legs"
    "Orison Seal: Legs"

    When you make your choice, the Dominion Tactician will say (Yes I even took the time to make a script of dialogue in case this was ever taken seriously)

    "With more and more operations being conducted, we've been coming across these random slips of parchment in the field. Command has seen fit to charge me with safeguarding them, and I've just recently been given clearance to exchange these for battle trophies."

    You'll of course be prompted if you wish to trade your trophy. If you hit yes, your trophy will be expended, leaving you with 14 3rd echelon trophies, and 1 shiny new leg seal for whichever job you chose.
    (2)
    Last edited by Anjou; 05-29-2013 at 09:59 PM.

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