New Ammunition & Method for Obtainment

[Chimerawizard]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Seriously?! you are going there after whatshisface got hounded off the forum for suggesting ninjas ought to use that throwing skill? brave man...

I am quite proud on my NIN. It's just as awesome as it has always been. Lv.37.

More serious, I remember a NIN/DRK that used to kick everyone's butt in parse. He'd also sometimes spend 500k-1m at an event when he did that. One day he got thrown in with a large ban sweep. Guess I know how he afforded it.

[Keyln]

* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate evades
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate dodges
* Elphy asks why ammo cannot be non-consumable
* Camate switches target


hehe

Probably because to change ammo to be non-consumable would require a significant change in code and/or design. It'd be more trouble than what it's worth.

[Karbuncle]

Any word on throwing ammo? Shuriken used to be the most powerful damage. It would be nice to see some new ones added with delve level dps. Just make sure it isn't as expensive or rare as its predecessors were.

/sarcasm no more than 1000 plasm per shuriken.

Pretty much unless Shuriken had 700 DMG and 1 delay, it'd be better to just continue your melee DPS , I think they'd need to buff Throwing for NIN before hey considering applying a Shuriken Bandage.

I mean, I'm not against it, If anything it'd be nice for the shuriken users, but, Wish they'd enhance that aspect of the job if it would benefit the job as a whole.

[Duelle]

I have brought up that point before and had tons of replies talking about how that is the stupidest idea ever because it takes away from immersion or realism lol. But I think it is something that should be seriously considered.

Because a game with catgirls and two-foot-tall magical midgets is sooo realistic. =P

I do agree with you. It helps in making certain jobs more appealing to play.

I'm sorry but anyone who still harps on "virtual economy" after the complete slap in the face of adoulin gear/weapons needs to be drug into the street, beaten and shot.

The ENTIRE economy is SOLELY based around food, and airlixirs. (and to a lesser extent, pops for delve field nms).

I like the way you think.

[Kincard]

Pretty much unless Shuriken had 700 DMG and 1 delay, it'd be better to just continue your melee DPS , I think they'd need to buff Throwing for NIN before hey considering applying a Shuriken Bandage.

I mean, I'm not against it, If anything it'd be nice for the shuriken users, but, Wish they'd enhance that aspect of the job if it would benefit the job as a whole.

Standard delay for Shuriken is 192. With the extra ranged delay added in, that's about 2.6 seconds. Pamun +1 has 125D with ~2s delay (After assuming 50% DW). With capped haste it's 0.8s.

In order for a single Shuriken to outdo an unbuffed Ninja's Pamun+1 it needs to have 163D or so. A capped haste Ninja (not too rare) would require a 407D shuriken. I'm too lazy to consider fSTR2 and higher ranged ratio but it's not like a Ninja will get anywhere near capping either of those anyway.

Sange is worth considering since it'll let you lob 5 at once or whatever, if they want us to only use Shurikens when Sange is available I would ask that we get something like 400+D shurikens when you consider you need to spend 2 seconds just using the dumb JA.

[Tanama]

Why are the "content level 20" bolts lower than current offerings(Damascus Bolts)?

Most of us are also wondering this.

[Mirage]

Probably because to change ammo to be non-consumable would require a significant change in code and/or design. It'd be more trouble than what it's worth.

Because anyone here actually knows how hard or easy it would be.

Here's my equally unfounded opinion: It would be as hard as changing a 0 to a 1 in a server config file/UI somewhere.

[Karbuncle]

Standard delay for Shuriken is 192. With the extra ranged delay added in, that's about 2.6 seconds. Pamun +1 has 125D with ~2s delay (After assuming 50% DW). With capped haste it's 0.8s.

In order for a single Shuriken to outdo an unbuffed Ninja's Pamun+1 it needs to have 163D or so. A capped haste Ninja (not too rare) would require a 407D shuriken. I'm too lazy to consider fSTR2 and higher ranged ratio but it's not like a Ninja will get anywhere near capping either of those anyway.

Sange is worth considering since it'll let you lob 5 at once or whatever, if they want us to only use Shurikens when Sange is available I would ask that we get something like 400+D shurikens when you consider you need to spend 2 seconds just using the dumb JA.

Appreciate putting real numbers on my wild overexhaggerations XD.

But, If i may? Are you considering TP gain in this equation? Dual Wield hits are going to net you about what, 10~11TP or so? Where as Shuriken are going to net you about 5-6, So while with a D:407 Shuriken you'll get the same damage, You get half the TP, making it still, far less useful as it'll impact your WS Frequency, which is generally the biggest issue with Shuriken.

Which is why, in one of my few "Pro Shuriken" Posts, I suggested SE introduce a Job Trait that increases TP Gained by Shuriken by 1 (Up to 5) per trait level, Starting at level 15, maybe even let us merit it up to ~15.

Further, You're also assuming you have 0 Double Attack, Triple Attack, or Quad Attack... The math changes a bit when you get there, Its also assuming your Acc/atk is the same as your R.acc/R.atk, while is almost never the case. D:407 would be a good start, But honestly it'd still be awful once you factor in everything ^ there.

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

[Keyln]

Because anyone here actually knows how hard or easy it would be.

Here's my equally unfounded opinion: It would be as hard as changing a 0 to a 1 in a server config file/UI somewhere.

It wouldn't be that hard to make an educated guess based on general principles of game design and programming. Given that the design of the game is that almost all ranged items are consumed among being thrown (with a few notable exceptions), and if using a ranged item in the ammo slot, all of them are being consumed. Thus, given the current design, it would be a major task to change this to be non-consumable.

Even if it were as simple as changing a flag, it would have to be done to every single consumable ammo item in the game, and changing that and testing every single item would be a testing nightmare.

Seriously, you guys are way too hard on the SE devs sometimes.

[Kincard]

Still appreciate the run-down, Though 400DMG Shuriken is still probably outside the realm of possibility XD

That's pretty much what I wanted to show. The amount of DMG needed for Shuriken to be remotely useful is absurd. This is on top of the fact that Ninja doesn't have very many good ranged attack armors (There was a time when Ninja Tekko +1 was ridiculously powerful for ranged attacks if you wanted to Gun NIN but these pieces are few and far in between). This is assuming I want to use that inventory space at all. I'm running around with like 78/80 inventory on Ninja and I don't have a single piece of ranged attack gear or even ninjutsu nuking gear. SE doesn't seem to realize that the only reason RNG is powerful is because they can reduce their ranged delay consistently, can multiattack their arrows and have something like +60 accuracy in traits and thus can focus on investing all their gear into improving the higher fSTR2 and Ratio numbers for ranged attacks.

The best NINs can ever hope for is for Sange to be the one time you throw stuff (You'll throw 5 shurikens with the delay of just 1, after all). In order for this to happen I'd estimate it'd requiring Shurikens with at least 300 DMG.