Trials of the Magians and casual players.

[Sarick]

A casual player is someone who plays in their spare time, does their missions and other tasks, makes friends, and plays the job they like with who they like. Someone who expects to get something done in the timeframe their life allows at their own pace.

People who just don't feel like farming millions of gil or have bad luck want an alternative weapon option that scales better with the new content. Trials of the Magians is the perfect route for this. R/M/E and Delve weapons will still have their throne, so to speak, so no one has their toes stepped on, and everyone gets to enjoy playing the game.

The problem I wrote about is that to upgrade trial weapons the RME weapons toes WILL get stepped on. As a result the alternatives for upgrades are no longer available you either work for the new dev gear or capped out RME gear. The trial weapons are no longer relevant even to casual players. You'd be better off trashing the trial gear and buying AH equipment equivalent to the mass produced PINK armor from abbysea for millions of gil.

People who aren't casual don't understand the old RME is STOPPING the casual trial weapons from being upgradable.Take a trial weapon tht would have 60 attack and an emp version thats the same level is 71. If you upgrade the EMP weapon sword to its ultimate form its 140 attack or double the old cap.

For the trial version to be comparable it'd need to be at least 90 damage in it's final stage. From this perspective the level 99 trial weapon getting upgraded to 90 damage EXCEEDS the RME weapon that is 71 damage at level 95!

Basically, the RME weapons need rebalanced par stage to open up upgraded trial versions or they'll step on each others toes.

It's just bad balance. It creates a predicament for RME vs trial weapons being if trail weapons exceed the potential in one partially upgraded RME. The gripe is RME weapons would take multiple times more effort simply to upgrade to the next stage and better that 90 damage trial weapon.

Basically if they implement the upgraded trials they'll need to make rebalanced the other stages of RME so the minimum level 80ish RME's maintain an advantage over the highest tier trial weapons. RME's would need minor jumps at the on the final level of the RME weapons ultimate stages. The developer suggested one big upgrade at the end of the final stage. BAD IDEA!

[MakkotoParinne]

How exactly are people going at their own pace being stopped? On top of not stopping you SE has already said progression for events implemented is to tone them down as time goes on to make them even more accessible to others.

Extending a system that is actually counter productive to a player base with a limited playtime schedule isn't helping them. I really don't understand how that concept is so hard to get. Oh wait maybe you're expecting the TotM weapons to just require geodes to further upgrade them...

So you would rather people who don't have access to those weapons straight away wait, what, a year or more for it to be balanced for access by the general population? Everyone who agrees with me might as well just unsubscribe now to suit you.

The system itself is a long grind, yes, but it's small progress vs. no progress. Also, don't make sarcastic accusations. No one expects easy trials to upgrade their weapons.

[MakkotoParinne]

The problem I wrote about is that to upgrade trial weapons the RME weapons toes WILL get stepped on. As a result the alternatives for upgrades are no longer available you either work for the new dev gear or capped out RME gear. The trial weapons are no longer relevant even to casual players. You'd be better off trashing the trial gear and buying AH equipment equivalent to the mass produced PINK armor from abbysea for millions of gil.

People who aren't casual don't understand the old RME is STOPPING the casual trial weapons from being upgradable.Take a trial weapon tht would have 60 attack and an emp version thats the same level is 71. If you upgrade the EMP weapon sword to its ultimate form its 140 attack or double the old cap.

For the trial version to be comparable it'd need to be at least 90 damage in it's final stage. From this perspective the level 99 trial weapon getting upgraded to 90 damage EXCEEDS the RME weapon that is 71 damage at level 95!

Basically, the RME weapons need rebalanced par stage to open up upgraded trial versions or they'll step on each others toes.

It's just bad balance. It creates a predicament for RME vs trial weapons being if trail weapons exceed the potential in one partally upgraded RME. RME weapons would take multiple times more effort simply to upgrade to the next stage and better that 90 damage trial weapon.

Basically if they implement the upgraded trials they'll need to make rebalanced the other stages of RME so the minimum level 85 exceeds the power of the highest tier trial weapons. With minor jumps at the on the final level of the RME weapons ultimate stages.

I agree with that concept, that each stage of R/M/E should have modest damage increases. As long as that occurs, TotM weapons should become more competitive as an alternative.

[Sarick]

So you would rather people who don't have access to those weapons straight away wait, what, a year or more for it to be balanced for access by the general population? Everyone who agrees with me might as well just unsubscribe now to suit you.

I see it the same way, the game isn't going to last forever and the people who are leaving are doing so for various reasons. As I said before most of the core user base is clueless. The hardcore players are the wrost because they'll play till the severs shut down or they get banned for exploiting something. They was clueless about the financial situation in the development when things started going south. Now they're still clueless about the games longevity.

The system itself is a long grind, yes, but it's small progress vs. no progress. Also, don't make sarcastic accusations. No one expects easy trials to upgrade their weapons.

That's what I tried to explain about the game I recently gave up on. Like I said to get decent gear capable of letting me move forward I'd need to invest hundreds of hours of frustrating time sinks that revolved around luck. I was getting no where in the game. I saw it like this, even if I managed to bust my arse getting capable gear my chances of finishing everything would be a waste of time.

If a casual player can't really advance at all they might as well just quit while they're ahead and avoid the frustration of long wasted hours for a game that may die in a year or two.

I agree with that concept, that each stage of R/M/E should have modest damage increases. As long as that occurs, TotM weapons should become more competitive as an alternative.

I won't hold my breath the developers don't want RME weapons to be relevant anymore. The recent announcement was to save face for all the hate from them becoming gutter trash. To rebalance RME stages it'd take some work and money. Obviously, the financial and management situation doesn't give much leeway for it. They'll take the cheapest solution. This means leaving hardcore RME final stage weapons relevant while lower stage weapons aren't useful to the point where it's better to work on new weapons. Reckless abandonment.

RME upgrades only at final stages is a joke unless you already have them upgraded to final stages they're better off being deleted because you can get better gear elsewhere. The final upgrade shows just how stupid it would be to complete an RME. Every sage up until its masted is GARBAGE compared to new gear. The players who like this is a solution aren't very smart IMHO. It's like someone who thinks a bronzed turd from a famous person is worth millions of dollars.

[MakkotoParinne]

The way I see it, if it cannot be done without balancing them, I think they should balance them.

If it can be done without balancing them, it's still a step in the right direction. My point is, if someone with a lower level R/M/E cannot obtain enough metal plates, they shouldn't be left in the dust, you know?

I wonder why anyone bothered to implement content such as Salvage II or level 99 trials at all if it was planned to be scrapped. Couldn't the hours of work and money spent be used to something a little more productive towards variety in equipment?

[RAIST]

...I just want my double attack katana updated, that is all ; ;.

Not just that one... I have several for which I have been expecting an additional trial. There are several lines that just don't appear to be finished yet. Just look at the descriptions on the current final stages for some lines:




I just grabbed a couple panels, but the trend covers several lines for each weapon out there. Other lines don't have their damage ratings still broken out like that, but instead have it consolidated as one value. It would appear SE had something more in store for magians.

The big questions are if and when they will be coming...

[MakkotoParinne]

Not just that one... I have several for which I have been expecting an additional trial. There are several lines that just don't appear to be finished yet. Just look at the descriptions on the current final stages for some lines:




I just grabbed a couple panels, but the trend covers several lines for each weapon out there. Other lines don't have their damage ratings still broken out like that, but instead have it consolidated as one value. It would appear SE had something more in store for magians.

The big questions are if and when they will be coming...

I hope a community rep can help us out here. Let's stay positive and try to garner more likes on the first post to get some attention for this.

[Sarick]

I hope a community rep can help us out here. Let's stay positive and try to garner more likes on the first post to get some attention for this.

You have mine.

I wonder why anyone bothered to implement content such as Salvage II or level 99 trials at all if it was planned to be scrapped. Couldn't the hours of work and money spent be used to something a little more productive towards variety in equipment?

I feel the same way. I have a severe disposition to players who fail to realize how poorly implemented and broken the latest expansion makes things. It's absurd that only the final levels or RME weapons will be relevant. They'll need massive amounts of resources to be garbage at lower partial levels so it's not feasible to use/build them in stages anymore.

[Zagen]

So you would rather people who don't have access to those weapons straight away wait, what, a year or more for it to be balanced for access by the general population? Everyone who agrees with me might as well just unsubscribe now to suit you.

The system itself is a long grind, yes, but it's small progress vs. no progress. Also, don't make sarcastic accusations. No one expects easy trials to upgrade their weapons.

I'm sorry are you all the way up to date on the previous stuff already? I mean if you are then how aren't you able to clear the new stuff. Did you miss the part where I mentioned the group I did the matamata with was compromised of people who are far from "well geared" (far from caught up). It really just takes some research, planning, and getting people together to get the new content done it isn't actually that hard. Everyday it gets less hard as those hardcore players figure out how exactly the new gimmicks work and they aren't even jerks about it they make their knowledge free for all to read.

[RAIST]

I'll support this thread, but I think the issue is more the fact that ToTM doesn't seem to tie well to Adoulin content, and limiting it to Abyssea would be odd.

Just wanted to note that Magians don't really need to tie into SoA, nor Abyssea. The mechaninc for ToM is basically to spam the same target repeatedly to strengthen the weapon. You kill this NM x number of times (either for direct credit, or kill it enough times to get x number of items), or you kill monsters in this family under certain conditions (weather/day, pet final kill, Weaponskill kill, use Weaponskill x number of times on them), participate int certain events enough times to collect a set number of items from that event (or you could cheat and buy some--the point is to acquire items to use to upggrade the weapon), and so and so and so forth.

The point is... Magians aren't really tied to any specific expansion or add-on other than the fact that you are trying to acquire a specific item/kill a target only available in/from those zones/events tied to those expansions/add-ons. It could very easily be something as stupid as Moogles are curious about the plasm and want you to come to them with 100k units of it for them to examine you, then put you through some crazy boss fight to see how the plasm effects the fight. Who knows.

Even if they don't want to get that elaborate with development, they don't need to do much, really. For the most part, the mechanic is already there. After all, we only got to 15 Avatarites for elemental stages, and most the WS paths just need new mob types with a new number of WS kills or WS usage and such. Basically, all SE needs to do is come up with new targets or a new mechanic for the small percentage that don't already have an obvious path/pattern established, and we have a whole new tier for magians.