Trials of the Magians and casual players.

[darkhorror]

I think part of the problem people are having is that if you have a lvl 99 or will have a lvl 99 REM you will continue to get upgrades. While those who did lvl 99 of other weapons won't. Now with current REM lvl 99, people were fine with the difference between it and the lvl 99 other magian weapons. So you get lvl 99 REM getting the upgrade to new content level, while all other magian weapons don't and become not use able.

All the different magian trials were great I loved looking to see what the new stats on effects on the new weapons were going to be. Plus it gave a verity and lots of stuff to do after every update. Where we stand now it's focused on a very small part of the game. I don't really mind right now as it's new and exciting right now. Plus the gear isn't hard to get.

[Hawklaser]

You're missing a few key things here:
1) A casual who isn't focusing on current endgame which is roughly the same as level 110~120 content doesn't need weapons on par with delve weapons (designed to be at the strength of 110~120 while still reading "Lv.99").
2) If you are focusing on current end game then the weapons designed to be at the strength of 99 are more than enough until getting the newer weapons.
3) Effects that don't show up on gear often keep most of those weapons relevant even when compared to the newer weapons, as to OaT/DA see #2.

You still haven't answered the question of why someone who doesn't participate in content designed to be level 110~120 difficulty needs a weapon to be designed or rather updated to be in the 105~110 range.

I don't have a problem with TotM being upgraded though I believe if they're going to keep up with the newer weapons they should require doing newer content to advance because if you aren't doing newer content what's the point of having an upgraded weapon.

If one has no interest in the 110-120 level content they don't. However when that 120-130 range content comes out and the 100-120 content becomes mostly abandoned, there is going to need to be an alternative to the 100-120 weapons, or some way to keep the 100-120 content relevant.

Agreed, they should use the new content if they expand TotM weapons. Could use Ghastly stones from Skirmish to upgrade them to around the area of Skirmish weapons and Naakuals.

Just going to use lances as an example. Most TotM lances end with about 132 DMG, and the OAT which is considered really good is 110, the Skirmish base lance is 146, and can get augmented up to 166, the Delve plasm lance is 181, and the Delve boss lance is 266. Now if it took say 10 ghastly stone +2's to upgrade a TotM lance with +20 Damage(might need adjusting for the multi hit lines), would that be considered a good expansion? And later they could also do the same using Air elixers.

Now while the OAT lance is good as is and I would likely keep using it instead of a max augmented skirmish lance for most enemies, it becomes really questionable when compared to the delve plasm lance, especially after it gets augmented to 15/10/10 on the att or acc paths. Too bad have not yet finished the lance since not many like helping with some of its NM's, and now that Voidwatch is not as done it is likely going to be even harder if can get to that part.

[Zagen]

It's funny that ppl quick to bail when their MMO switch to F2P. It lets u know where the loyalty lies. I always wondered why ppl still think F2P is the worst yet the most profitable for years abolishing P2P. U may not realize it, but what do u think they are getting these changes from? Why do u think they are trying to do whatever it takes to bring them back to this game cause they are losing numbers.

I never said f2p was a worse business plan, I already know it's the better business model. However I'm not here as a game designer, I'm here as a player, a player who knows that he's honestly not up for the level of grinding in f2p games because I refuse to pay for the bonuses that reduce the grind. Why do I refuse? Simple, if I began I'd likely spend a lot more than I planned on spending. That mindset is exactly what has made it a superior business plan.

Outside of the random double exp weekends (double plans soon too) what's been taken from free to play that was unique to free to play MMOs?

I'd love to hear an answer because I honestly can't find one, well I could see an argument for the satchel before it was linked to the app version of the security token. As to the double exp weekends well that isn't actually unique to free to play MMOs it's been used in a lot of EXP based online game genres.

If one has no interest in the 110-120 level content they don't. However when that 120-130 range content comes out and the 100-120 content becomes mostly abandoned, there is going to need to be an alternative to the 100-120 weapons, or some way to keep the 100-120 content relevant.

Agreed, they should use the new content if they expand TotM weapons. Could use Ghastly stones from Skirmish to upgrade them to around the area of Skirmish weapons and Naakuals.

Just going to use lances as an example. Most TotM lances end with about 132 DMG, and the OAT which is considered really good is 110, the Skirmish base lance is 146, and can get augmented up to 166, the Delve plasm lance is 181, and the Delve boss lance is 266. Now if it took say 10 ghastly stone +2's to upgrade a TotM lance with +20 Damage(might need adjusting for the multi hit lines), would that be considered a good expansion? And later they could also do the same using Air elixers.

Now while the OAT lance is good as is and I would likely keep using it instead of a max augmented skirmish lance for most enemies, it becomes really questionable when compared to the delve plasm lance, especially after it gets augmented to 15/10/10 on the att or acc paths. Too bad have not yet finished the lance since not many like helping with some of its NM's, and now that Voidwatch is not as done it is likely going to be even harder if can get to that part.

Sounds like we're in agreement and your ideas are all pretty good as to how to continue them. I'd have to math the OAT to be sure but I don't think it would come out on top of the current 'best' options, should be close which imo would be fine.

[Demon6324236]

Compared to the Delve PA, the OAT is nothing, Delve with Augments is just under the PA from the Foret boss, and that one beats Ryuno unless AM3 is up at literally all times, even then, it almost wins. OAT is amazing for TP gain and spamming WSs as well as making your jumps insane, but against the Delve DMG it gets crushed, its a turning point where quality becomes better than quantity, as far as I know even Herja's beat out OAT by a bit, but not a ton, and this thing makes Herja's look like a joke, so yeah.

[Osmond]

I never said f2p was a worse business plan, I already know it's the better business model. However I'm not here as a game designer, I'm here as a player, a player who knows that he's honestly not up for the level of grinding in f2p games because I refuse to pay for the bonuses that reduce the grind. Why do I refuse? Simple, if I began I'd likely spend a lot more than I planned on spending. That mindset is exactly what has made it a superior business plan.

Let me get this straight, u have a issue about a bonus that can be paid to reduce grinding yet if u haven't noticed u don't have to pay for it w/ many F2P MMOs. They just give it to you for supporting the game or u play enough. Then again u don't play F2P right cause of your assumption? How can u say u refuse to pay to reduce grinding when u already are ex. Abyssea.

[Zagen]

Let me get this straight, u have a issue about a bonus that can be paid to reduce grinding yet if u haven't noticed u don't have to pay for it w/ many F2P MMOs. They just give it to you for supporting the game or u play enough. Then again u don't play F2P right cause of your assumption? How can u say u refuse to pay to reduce grinding when u already are ex. Abyssea.

Maybe if I actually break it down with some numbers, for example:

Pay to Play EXP value = 1
Free to Play EXP value = 0.25-0.5
Free to Play EXP added value via bonus package = +0.5-0.75

In other words to have the same EXP value I'd have to buy the bonus package. I'd in general have to buy the package several times. This is what would lead to spending more money than I intended.

I know you're trying to argue I could just stick with the EXP value of 0.25-0.5 but why when I could pay a flat fee and get the full value whenever I want instead of for an amount of time or more commonly within a time frame.

Edit: Oh and please don't think my only issue with with EXP it's just an example.

[Osmond]

I'd love to hear an answer because I honestly can't find one, well I could see an argument for the satchel before it was linked to the app version of the security token. As to the double exp weekends well that isn't actually unique to free to play MMOs it's been used in a lot of EXP based online game genres.

Yes, it's not unique I can agree w/ that. The problem in what FFXI did is that the only purpose for double exp weekend is to lvl it to 30 quicker and u can leech it to 99 in abyssea, then again it's a pointless event if u already have Field/grounds of valor. The only reason I see this to try to be on par w/ their competition...it's not really needed.

I don't think I can find a argument for the Mog Satchel. Whether u using the software or the original will still get the item unless SE did something stupid.

[Zagen]

Compared to the Delve PA, the OAT is nothing, Delve with Augments is just under the PA from the Foret boss, and that one beats Ryuno unless AM3 is up at literally all times, even then, it almost wins. OAT is amazing for TP gain and spamming WSs as well as making your jumps insane, but against the Delve DMG it gets crushed, its a turning point where quality becomes better than quantity, as far as I know even Herja's beat out OAT by a bit, but not a ton, and this thing makes Herja's look like a joke, so yeah.

Do you realize Hawklaser and I are talking about if the OAT got updated with more damage and not in it's current form?

[Zagen]

I don't think I can find a argument for the Mog Satchel. Whether u using the software or the original will still get the item unless SE did something stupid.

The argument that can be made for the satchel is one that I did and I'm sure many others did too which is we paid for the satchel and not the actual token. So much like F2P players we paid for extra inventory instead of the added security.

[Osmond]

Maybe if I actually break it down with some numbers, for example:

Pay to Play EXP value = 1
Free to Play EXP value = 0.25-0.5
Free to Play EXP added value via bonus package = +0.5-0.75

In other words to have the same EXP value I'd have to buy the bonus package. I'd in general have to buy the package several times. This is what would lead to spending more money than I intended.

I know you're trying to argue I could just stick with the EXP value of 0.25-0.5 but why when I could pay a flat fee and get the full value whenever I want instead of for an amount of time or more commonly within a time frame.

Edit: Oh and please don't think my only issue with with EXP it's just an example.

Umm, a few things in mind. 1(and I believe I already said this before) no one has the same mindset as other ppl. They can be fine accepting the EXP value of 0.25-0.5 cause at the end of the day they don't have to pay anything, it's all optional. 2, I didn't start the argument, I didn't come out and make out random prices to prove a point that F2P is a bad move for players. I just said that due to the issues regarding this game and where it's gonna head, cause they competing other MMOs w/ that practice.