Thread: What will become of Red Mage v1.0?

Originally Posted by Duelle

The question should be "why not?".

If you notice, everything mentioned so far has been melee-related. I doubt any of us would ask for a return of ye olde "kite+DoT+Nuke" soloing, which encompassed all RDM soloing pre-Abyssea. I personally want the sword to be more useful and RDM to be kept in mind and treated as a melee mage. Right now the job is an afterthought, and has been treated as such since the Abyssea era.

I may be wrong, but I recall using low dmg weapons and enspells, trying to hit for 0 (so the enspells/dots did all the damage and mob got as little tp as possible).

As for why not:

. It has potent enhancing magic and the best enfeebling magic in the game. Bard don't, usually, ask to do more damage because bards are able to look at what they do for the group.

. It's the third best healer in the game.

. It accommodates its subs very well.

. It nukes well. I'm not sure where it ranks with geo now.

. It is more likely to survive than most jobs.

. It has melee skill, it has melee gear. It has access to empy, relic, and mythic weapons.

I know I'm in the lion's den complaining about cat poop, but it is a strong class on all fronts, sub depending. It is even a very strong tank, prior to hate nerfs and breakage. If it can hold hate though, it survives well.

Why should rdm be a competent melee when some more-pure, or pure-melees, aren't very competitive? Bst, thf, dnc, and others. It's a known thing that ffxi damage revolves around about 5 jobs right now.

Originally Posted by Hayward

Endgamer talking points aside, S-E cannot advertise a job as a fighter-mage and then kowtow to a playerbase that only sees the job as an ordinary substitute for WHM. That is simply unacceptable these days. The tools for melee are there. All S-E needs to do is stop listening to idiots crying wolf about jobs being overpowered and make RDM what they originally intended it to be: a crippler through magic who can augment his/her fighting skill through magic.

There are ways to prevent another Avesta from popping up. Stripping RDM of its melee capabilities isn't one of them.

Geez, why is crippling the boss not enough? If you want to play melee-mage, play Blu. The classes are there, you just want a job that can do...anything.

If RDM was given adequate DD, what job couldn't it do? Tanking would be the hardest, but still feasible. They're haven't kowtowed to anything, the job can't be strong in every aspect of gameplay.

Sorry.

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

Have you looked at RDM's Combat Skills on this game?



Put it simply, we have access to some melee gear, our primary weapons have always been swords and daggers, we have subpar skill in Club, NO SKILL IN STAFF, we are not meant to be a mage only. We are meant to melee in some capacity, we always were meant to since the dawn of our creation, the problem is we have started to lack the necessary gear as well as the fact we lack the buffs, at a time our buffs were enough, with time, they have grown more and more out of date. An Attack buff and more melee gear would be more than enough to put us back on track, see BLU mages, they are a hybrid, something we are supposed to be, but we are not like them, we are much weaker. When someone gets a BLU its for a Hybrid, when someone gets a RDM they almost always expects a mage, there is a problem with that.

I'm sorry where did I say RDM can't/shouldn't melee? Where did I say RDM has to use clubs or staves?

Want whip out a sword or dagger and contribute some melee damage while maintaining refresh and enfeebles without become a threat to the rest of the group? More power to you, I won't say anything until you stop keeping up refresh, enfeebles, or threaten the group I'm with.

Maybe I really am that unique butterfly my mother told me I was and I'm the only one who is indifferent toward your desire to melee on RDM as long as you handle your other duties I expect you to do as a RDM but I highly doubt that.

Originally Posted by Zagen

I'm sorry where did I say RDM can't/shouldn't melee? Where did I say RDM has to use clubs or staves?

The entirety of my comment was made not simply toward you but rather to anyone with this opinion, one of which you seemed to support by the way...

Originally Posted by Shenten

RDM is a support mage, it's not a DD, should'nt be either.

Which is a stupid comment no one should make because it shows a very short sighted view. In all honesty you are very correct, not many people can pull off all of those things at 1 time. If you are asking me to refresh a mage or two while fighting and keeping up Para/Slow/Blind, I can do that, if you are asking me to refresh 5 mages in my party while keeping up Para, Slow, Addle, Blind, and Gravity on a highly resistant mob while keeping DDs topped off on HP as best I can and maybe stunning a few moves. No, no point in even trying to melee at all.

I am not stupid enough to think it is possible to melee in all situations, but the fact people write RDM off entirely when it comes to a DD position is something that insults me and annoys me to no end. I am sure I could do great damage once the 4STR-->2Attack is changed to 4STR--3Attack and if I were ever put on some more real DD gear like Athos, Thaumas, Thurandaut, and others of that sort. My post was not aimed simply at you, I am sorry if it seemed that way, but it was made at the idea that RDM can not and should not be a DD, and those who believe in it.

Originally Posted by Demon6324236

The entirety of my comment was made not simply toward you but rather to anyone with this opinion, one of which you seemed to support by the way...

Which is a stupid comment no one should make because it shows a very short sighted view. In all honesty you are very correct, not many people can pull off all of those things at 1 time. If you are asking me to refresh a mage or two while fighting and keeping up Para/Slow/Blind, I can do that, if you are asking me to refresh 5 mages in my party while keeping up Para, Slow, Addle, Blind, and Gravity on a highly resistant mob while keeping DDs topped off on HP as best I can and maybe stunning a few moves. No, no point in even trying to melee at all.

So what you're saying is you don't want to adapt to a situation? That's like a DD refusing to shift from RCBs to Sushi when they don't have BRDs and CORs there to super buff their ACC... I understand many situations are caused by players but maybe you should reconsider who you play with if you don't like situations where you have to refresh 5 mages. Just like a DD who refuses to do things without BRDS and CORs.

Originally Posted by Zagen

So what you're saying is you don't want to adapt to a situation?

No, not really, the situation I gave was basically a situation I would have no time to actually melee. If I am spamming a constant Para, Slow, and Blind, while keeping people Refreshed and Healed I am constantly reseting the delay on my weapon, I will get in what? A swing or two every twenty seconds? If I am in a party with 5 people worth refreshing, meaning mages, I am getting no outside buffs either, which makes it pointless to melee because the DDs with buffs will make my DPS so small by compare that if its worth fighting my scraps and scratches I give the NM will be meaningless anyways. There is a limit to what a single person can reasonably do within a party, to much on a single person and it becomes to much for them to do alone, in the situation I gave, melee would become an impossibility due to character constraints. If you put a RDM in a DD spot with proper buffs, they can refresh the WHM, a single person, keep up some buffs on themselves, perhaps a tank, and throw their party a few cures even, lighter duties and it allows for them to melee. Any time you are in charge of constant casting and/or not located in a DD party you are of no use on the front lines as a RDM, almost any of those times you are truly better off as a SCH instead.

To clarify how what I am saying is different. You are talking about DDs complaining they do not have proper buffs to eat one type of food and that they must use another. I am complaining it is not possible for my job to do so many things while maintaining any form of melee that would be worth performing in the first place. It would be like a DD complaining that they can not hit the mobs even when eating sushi unless they have a BRD, then you refuse to give then a BRD. If I am in this situation I speak of, my melee is pointless, no point in trying something I will fail at anyways, I would be better off spending my random 3 seconds I would get to melee instead Hasting the other DDs.

Originally Posted by OmnysValefor

If RDM was given adequate DD, what job couldn't it do?

What job couldnt it do? I dont know, probably would be able to do everything at an ok level. Weirdly enough RDM is meant to be the Jack of all Trades, master of none. Being able to do all jobs seems like it goes with that title I think.

Tanking would be the hardest, but still feasible. They're haven't kowtowed to anything, the job can't be strong in every aspect of gameplay.

Actually, it can be strong enough in every aspect to make it of use while not becoming over powered to the point of rendering others useless. Even if they buffed RDM to have the same gear as a BLU has it would not change the overall hierarchy much. RDM would gain considerable damage but would it match BLU? No, not close. Look at BLU's options, it has set spells which give it traits, it can change subs from NIN to something like WAR with massive Attack and Accuracy boosts. It has many support spells, not all usable at a single time but many of which are incredibly strong, +100% Defense, high -Defense, 5 Minute Haste, multiple stuns, AoE sleep of both light and dark I believe. It is very strong in support, and while it must pick and choose it has access to them all at some point is the BLU is question so chooses. The difference between a RDM and a BLU is that a BLU has more powerful spells while lacking access to them all at once, they have traits where we have spells to enhance ourselves, spells which can be dispelled in great numbers at that! BLUs have better gear, more flexible sub choices, and over all they can perform better as a Hybrid than a RDM can. Giving RDM a boost in melee would help us come closer, but we would not surpass, we would need Bravery(+20%Attack) to get that I think. In either case, your idea of why its bad is actually the exact reason it is the right thing to do, because RDM is meant to do everything enough to be feasible without being to good to out class those who were designed to do it in the first place. Notice no RDM is asking for Heavy DD like damage numbers, rather closer to Light DDs, notice no RDM is asking for T5 nukes, something which pushes us back quite a bit in magic damage, notice how since the cure changes, no RDM is really asking for Cure V is they know anything about the job. We know our problems, we are trying to fix them, and this melee thing is a problem. We know we are not meant to be masters of all, rather we are the masters of none, but we are the Jack of all Trades, and in this case, the trade of Melee, is one we lack, so we would like that changed to fit our title among the jobs as we are meant to.