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  1. #901
    Player Aeron's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    137
    Character
    Lanselot
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    PLD Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by machini View Post
    Mythics aren't hard to make. And they are, by the dev's own admission, supposed to be the best weapons. And now they're worse off than they were relative to the relic and empyrean than before the update.

    The only thing about mythics that has been 'hard' in the last couple of years was the time investment in terms of once-per-day bottlenecks meaning it took 50-100 days, minimum to make one (depending on if you had done any assaults or not).
    I agree with you that they aren't hard to make ppl that do the least amount of effort are usually the loudest on these forums and would cry saying its not fair that mythics were the best.
    (0)

  2. #902
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by dasva View Post
    On the other hand ranged mythics still have worse AM3. The magic dmg stat on them looks cool but remember it does little to magic dmg with high base dmgs so in this case it doesn't really do much. The +50 agi on Armageddon will actually increase dmg more on the ranged magical ws. In fact arma just might be better overall... better aftermath better wf before count ammo though worse tf/ls dmg better physical dmg
    Do magic weaponskill have high base damage? I always thought their base damage was only based on the weaponskill attribute, or is magic damage added after the ftp? because if it is added after the ftp that's dumb and should be changed. And while it may be better for wildfire wouldn't trueflight and leaden be better than wildfire except in cases where you need fire damage specifically? And for physical damage wouldn't Annihilator be the better option? It's aftermath is +10% attack and has much better ranged accuracy and attack. The 10% attack would actually do something on ws where the triple damage aftermath would not. Really the whole thing is comparing apples to oranges though since Gastraphetes is a crossbow and Annihilator and Armageddon are guns.
    (0)

  3. #903
    Player Cblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Cloudblade
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    The minimum is actually zero, occasionally attack twice and thrice are less effective depending on how much quadruple, triple, and double attack you have. Considering the amount of those stats on gear now compared to level 99 aftermath 3 has aged poorly.
    Mythics' DA/TA can proc on regular DA, TA and QA swings I believe. A regular DA could turn into a 5 hit or so if that is true. If the multiple hits can't proc on these, then Mythics' damage would fall.
    (0)

  4. #904
    Player Ulth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    578
    Character
    Andrewviii
    World
    Valefor
    Main Class
    THF Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cblade View Post
    Mythics' DA/TA can proc on regular DA, TA and QA swings I believe. A regular DA could turn into a 5 hit or so if that is true. If the multiple hits can't proc on these, then Mythics' damage would fall.
    That is not how it works. If it were I would regularly have 8 hits in a round of combat from my massive amounts of triple attack. Mythic aftermath 3 can only proc on the first hit and are rolled after QA, TA, and DA. It's well established how occasionally attacks twice and thrice works.
    (1)

  5. #905
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    338
    If you have mythic aftermath 3 up, on average, you will get 1.8 attacks with your main hand. If you have Mythic Aftermath 3 up and you have 50% double attack, you will get, again, on average, 1.9 attacks with your main hand. If double, triple, or quadruple attack procs, then mythic aftermath 3 cannot proc.

    The way the calculation works is this:
    1 + 3Q + 2(1-Q)T + (1-(Q+T-QT))D + (1-Q)(1-T)(1-D)(3X + 2Y + Z)

    1 + 3Q + 2(1-Q)T + (1-(Q+T-QT))D is the calculation for multiattack. So if you have 50% quadruple attack, 50% triple attack, and 50% double attack, you will not always quadruple or triple attack and never double attack. When you swing, 50% of the time you will Quadruple Attack. If you don't, then 50% of the time (25% of total) you will triple attack. If you don't triple attack, then 50% of the time (12.5%) of the time you will double attack. So your odds of QA are .5, your odds of TA .25, DA are .125, and no multiattack is .125 (.5 + .25 + .125 + .125 = 1).

    Occasionally Attacks X times is calculated after multiattack. If Quadruple, Triple, or Double Attack activate, OAx cannot activate, as the calculation has stopped at whatever level of multiattack went off. With the above example, only 12.5% of the time could Mythic Aftermath 3 activate, which means it's effectively 1/8th as 'good' as it would seem to be.

    In my <Full Attack!> gear I have 2 Quadruple Attack, 16 Triple Attack, and 12 Double Attack. With Saber Dance up I have, at a minimum, 20 more Double Attack. So 2% of the time I will Quadruple attack. 98% of the time I will Triple Attack 16% of the time. Then, 84% of 98% of the time, I will Double Attack 32% of the time with Saber Dance up.
    .02 * 3 + .98 * .16 * 2 + (1 - (.18 - .02 * .14)) * .32 = .636896 attacks per attack round extra from all that multiattack.

    Now we get to calculate the contribution from Mythic Aftermath 3. 68% of 84% of 98% of the time, I will attack twice 40% of the time and thrice 20% of the time.

    .98 * . 84 * .68 = .559776.

    So just under 56% of the time will Mythic Aftermath 3 even have a *chance* to activate, assuming its up, and 40% of the time it does I'll get an additional attack, and 20% I'll get two.

    So .559776 * .4 = .2239104, and * .2 * 2 is the same thing. So Mythic Aftermath 3, instead of giving me the .8 attacks per round main hand it would give me if I had no DA/TA/QA, is now giving me .4478208 attacks per round on the main hand. Which means it has lost 44% of it's "awesomeness".

    This has been a problem for a while now. There are no diminishing returns in a similar fashion, that I am aware of, on Relic or Empyrean aftermath.

    And, again, this is just one small part of why this update has been such an insult.
    (1)

  6. #906
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulth View Post
    Do magic weaponskill have high base damage? I always thought their base damage was only based on the weaponskill attribute, or is magic damage added after the ftp? because if it is added after the ftp that's dumb and should be changed. And while it may be better for wildfire wouldn't trueflight and leaden be better than wildfire except in cases where you need fire damage specifically? And for physical damage wouldn't Annihilator be the better option? It's aftermath is +10% attack and has much better ranged accuracy and attack. The 10% attack would actually do something on ws where the triple damage aftermath would not. Really the whole thing is comparing apples to oranges though since Gastraphetes is a crossbow and Annihilator and Armageddon are guns.
    Sort of? It's really hard to compare terms like base dmg with how different magic and physical are calculated.

    To answer your calc questions I'll just give an approximate equation. WF dmg = 2(dagi) + mdmg + ftp* (.6agi+lvl/ilvl factor). Then of course multiple by the normal multipliers like mab, wsd etc. So yeah magic damage is outside of ftp as is the dstat factor which kind of blows.

    As far as leaden/true vs wildfire there is element but there is also tp and ws attribute aftermath concerns. Starting with tp... wf doesn't gain dmg with tp but the other 2 do. wf starts out higher but thanks to the ws bonus on mythics ls/tf will probably be as good with just tp bonus earring. ws attributes will matter though. Wf having lvl 3 element kind of matters sometimes. Having an always relevant aftermath is nice too

    For physical maybe... the 10% ratt might help might not depends on setup and just how much this update changed. Also somewhat depends on ws/tp splits. Traditionally rngs have had a decent portion of their dmg being tp so better ODT might matter or not. That said for physical aeonic might be really good. Last stand is already the best physical marksmanship ws and tp heavily modifies it's dmg. Aftermath just icing really. Also looks awesome

    Yeah part of the reason I was focusing on magical was cause at least on magical ws the game doesn't care if xbow or gun it's all the same. But the dot will still be a bit different
    (0)

  7. #907
    Player
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
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    1,542
    Quote Originally Posted by Cblade View Post
    Mythics' DA/TA can proc on regular DA, TA and QA swings I believe. A regular DA could turn into a 5 hit or so if that is true. If the multiple hits can't proc on these, then Mythics' damage would fall.
    The only OAX in the game that works with DA/TA/QA are from the old jailor weapons
    (0)

  8. #908
    Player Cblade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Posts
    15
    Character
    Cloudblade
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    SAM Lv 99
    Ah, I misread that page I was reading due to it being early in the morning. Given DA and TA gear was not as prevalent when mythics came out, the proc rates made sense, but today there is so much gear for it that their aftermath is barely a boost other than for the acc or att boost. The da/ta/qa gear in the game currently have effectively cut the aftermath's strength in half.
    (0)

  9. #909
    Player
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    338
    That's more or less how mythic aftermath sits at the moment.
    (0)

  10. #910
    Player Domille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Posts
    159
    Character
    Sylinath
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Cblade View Post
    The da/ta/qa gear in the game currently have effectively cut the aftermath's strength in half.
    Quote Originally Posted by machini View Post
    That's more or less how mythic aftermath sits at the moment.
    I was having this complaint LONG before this update, over a year ago. THF had so much Multi attack already that the value of mythic aftermath was kinda moot. It almost didn't matter at all even a year ago. On top of the fact that the SA/TA bonuses do not stack, really obnoxious.
    (0)

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