Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[Morrie]

I too have been a player, on and off, for about 8-9 years now. I never posted before today and only made an account to voice my frustration an disappointment over the recent decisions and implementations regarding the new weapons introduced.

One point I want to make, that some have voiced, is that not everyone is in a large or well-equipped enough Linkshell to be able to do Delve, let alone do Legion, so making Delve gear acquisition a component to enhancing r/e/m still alienates a large portion of the playerbase and not a very good suggestion.

Not only that, not everyone has 99 r/e/m or is capable of acquiring the materials needed to ugprade r/e/m past 90; again due to not being part of larger LSs. Only allowing those with the proper support and funding to reach 99 to upgrade further alienates players even if it wasn't to include Delve weapons/materials for the damage buff.

Did anyone really come out and say, “I never do enough damage, I should be doing 2-3times as much?” Does anyone else remember the days when breaking 1000dmg on HNM wasn't super common even in well-buffed situations? Now when I hit less than 2k it's caused I missed ½ of the hits or had -attributes/atk down. I never even saw the need for adding new weapons since r/e/m already requires a lot of time and effort. Adding any new path of HQ specialty weapons would diminish everything everyone had already worked for, and further separate those who only operate in groups of 3-6 (like me) vs those in LSs that are capable of supporting 30+ members.

R/E/M can be acquired with a group of 2-3 dedicated players, some even solo. Some of whom acquire those weapons and only take them to 90 because that's all that they can support with their group and/or playtime.

I don't know what solution should be implemented. I'd be in favor of buffing all 85-99 r/e/m up, reducing the base dmg on all new AH/Delve weapons, or just removing the new weapons entirely. This game already had balance issues and this just exacerbates the issue to ridiculous proportions of ineptitude on the developers' part.

I too will be canceling both of my accounts if this issue isn't addressed soon. I'll probably also be taking 3 other people away totaling another 6 accounts. My friend said GW2 was fun, might give that a go; and they don't charge a monthly fee either.

[Kikouken]

As someone who spent a significant amount of their early FFXI on RDM, a once-godly job that is now pretty useless, I'm no stranger to the fact that this is an MMO and things will change. That being said, this idea makes me nervous about the future of FFXI in a way that the server merges and level cap increases never came near.

Making R/E/Ms obsolete? I can't say I approve, but there are ways to make it happen that won't outrage current R/E/M holders. Even if it's just trading a 99 relic to an NPC for a 50% head start on whatever the new top-tier weapon will be, it's some sort of consolation beyond the completely dismissive attitude we're seeing right now.

This needs to be fixed, fast, or frustrated players will quit en masse without giving two scheisses for whatever grand vision Matsui and his team think they have. I'll be one of them.

[Sargent]

To think, Square Enix actually made a record loss last year, and now they've just annoyed the majority of the player base in their flagship MMO.

Good move, most players won't even think about playing XIV after this decision.

I feel sorry for the community reps. They're the one's having to shift through this thread filled (rightfully) with anger and hatred towards this decision. Most of the people posting aren't going to care about the repercussions of what they say, if this goes forward, you've lost half of your player base.

[Kojo]

The devs put themselves in this position. They created Ultimate weapons, their unique stats/wses and their requirements. This is something other MMOs don't have period and one of the things that makes FFXI different. At this point they should carry on the tradition and give yet another method of obtaining a top tier weapon in SOA and continue the model of keeping R/E/M Top Tier. While providing AH and NM rare/ex weapon that are upto par.

I would like to see the devs pay tribute to R/Ms.
Requirement: 99 or 99 Afterglow R/M

Final one on one battle against the previous NPC R/M holder.

Reward: 99 Final weapon. For the Elite, still have an option to afterglow it.
- Base dmg upgrade
- Stat upgrade
- Hidden Effect upgrade
- Aftermath upgrade

Empy tribute:
Requirement: 99 or 99 Afterglow Empy

Special rare drop off of an upgraded Shinryu battle. Brew restricted.

Reward: 99 Final weapon. For the Elite, still have an option to afterglow it.
- Base dmg upgrade
- Stat upgrade
- Hidden Effect upgrade
- Aftermath upgrade

Any Future Top Tier weapons added/adjusted: R/E/M will be adjusted via maintenance update to stay on par.

Sorry SE my Amano hasn't talked to me since lvl75: I still require training.

I like the idea.

[Smush]

Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
Matsui here.

I have some follow-up information regarding how we plan to build on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes ("coin") weapons (I'll refer to them as RMEC below. Apologies that I left out coin weapons in my last post).

There are many who feel upset and uneasy regarding the recently introduced weapons, as well as the information that has been conveyed until now. So while this information is still not finalized, I would like to give a bit more insight into our plans.

We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills that are granted from RMEC weapons when you have upgraded them to their level 99 form (this includes non-afterglow weapons, and shield/instruments will not be included in this). However, we plan on adding some conditions that fall in line with the jobs that can equip the respective RMEC weapons.

As we have yet to finish all the testing as to whether or not we can do this, please let me again reiterate that this is not yet finalized.

Due to the nature of this topic, we definitely need to proceed carefully, so despite the fact that I'm only mentioning this at the idea level, I understand that the level of disappointment will be quite great if I say that it is too difficult to accomplish this after all, and I was thinking it would be best to let you all know once it took a bit more shape.

You're probably thinking "if that’s the case, then don’t announce anything," but because I thought it wouldn't be good to not let you know anything until plans were finalized I decided to make this post. (I've been under so much stress I feel like I'm going to get an ulcer >< But I know I shouldn't be complaining.)

While the memories you made and the stats on your equipment cannot always be proportionate, we are trying our best to see if we can keep all of the effort spent on earning these weapons intact.

We plan to do all that we can, but please give us some time for this.

He also follows up on a player's comment, which I've summarized below:


Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

I have the following questions/comments regarding the unlocking of these special weapon skills, and I'm sure a lot of others are thinking the same:

- Relics: There are gaps in a lot of the weapon skills for these weapons. For example, there is no special advantage to Knights of Round or Scourge, while on the other hand unlocking Catastrophe or Coronach would lead to the destruction of balance.

- Mythic: These weapon skills can already be unlocked through the quest "Unlocking a Myth."

- Empyrean/Coin: How will these weapon skills be differentiated for the two weapons?
I was thinking this question would pop up.

I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. One of the reasons I felt I should not have mentioned anything during a stage where various things have not been finalized yet, despite prefacing it that this is non-finalized information, was following up on individual specific questions based on supposition.

Being silent because it's not possible to answer right now would remove the whole purpose of why I posted, but on the other hand, continuing to entertain suppositions would cause expectations to grow even more wild. As a result of this, things that I didn't promise would turn into promises, and I would like to avoid making it seem like we are breaking promises.

With that said, the answer for the moment for many things will be "Sorry, but I cannot answer that right now."

Once the content has been fleshed out and confirmed I will be sure to let you all know the details, but please give me some time.:

If your planning to unlock the ws for other weapons and not upgrade the R/M/E it will be a really horrible idea.

For Relic weapons a lot of the ws are not good at all so right there most of them have wasted time and a lot of gil.

For Mythic weapons you can already do the weapon skill so its a COMPLETE waste of a lot of time and a lot of gil this one takes the most work.

For Emps i would feel like i should have just not did my masa and did a WoE weapon which is way easier to 99 way less gil and time looking for items spamming vw etc, so big waste of time there.

I do like the idea of having access to the weapon skill if you have it level 99 but you should also upgrade the weapon then it would not be a waste, it would be a reason to have all 3 weapons if you include the aftermath for all of the weapon skills as well as upgrade the weapons base damage and maybe the stats on them as well.

Then Depending on the situation you choose which weapon to use not the ws.

For example: The mob has high evasion and you need accuracy pop on the Relic GK for the 40 acc and if you do so happen to have worked for a 99 masa tachi fudo and get ODD and if you did enough work to get all 3 99 you get a big reward by being able to save 300 tp tachi rana for att twice/trice.

I wouldn't mind that but unless you upgrade the base weapon then most of everyone who has them would have just wasted there time gil and effort.

So please SE if you only do one thing let it be upgrade the base damage and maybe the stats as well on the weapons.

Then we can talk about unlocking weapon skills with the aftermath because without the aftermath included Mythic weapon skill can already be done for emps all you need is a WoE weapon which is easy and a lot of the relic ws are not good.

[FrankReynolds]

Dev's priority list:

1- evolith
2- play as monster
3- chocobo farm
.
.
.
999- upgrade R/E/M (appparently they won't even do that)

They are stuck in the following dilemma:

- If they upgrade REM to surpass the new god tier weapons, people will not do the content, because the new weapons are the carrot to keep people interested in adoulin.

- if they dont upgrade them, half the hardcores players will quit.

Third option: Make a quest that combines the stats of the 99 weapons and allows you to choose which one to upgrade.

IE. trading "Joey the NPC" a 99 relic and a delve weapon gives you the option to combine the base damage of the delve weapon and the stats / attributes of the relic onto one weapon that will have access to the relic weapon skill.

For bonus points they could allow you to "Upgrade" either one, so that people who like the way delve weapons look could swap to that while people who like their relics could keep that look.

This would keep both delve and relics relevant while simultaneously allowing them to implement their (incredibly stupid) idea of allowing relic / empy weapon skills to be used on other weapons.

[Oakrest]

Constantly adjusting RMEs is just going to dig them deeper and deeper into a hole.

This is a misconception I've seen in this thread far too many times.

I have 10 level 99 jobs that I play regularly, but only my PLD, WAR, DRK, and COR have R/E that I've obtained. I don't plan on getting any more R/M/E for any of my jobs, I have enough work ahead getting them all to 99. That means the other 6 jobs I play regularily that don't get a R/M/E are subject to the next best options: end game content r/x weapon, or an AH weapon. I'm ok with that, it makes that content fun for those jobs, and I don't care if those 6 jobs don't have the best of the best.

The time spent on R/M/E warrants they be the best of the best, forever. It was their design. You can't build a castle and not be aware of the upkeep, this is the trade-off of this type of design.

Oakozric (Almace not shown):
http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Bahamut/Oakozric

[Kitkat]

This has got to be the worst possible joke ever. Even as an "Idea" this is horrible, so bad even that it kills braincells to read. Devs need to understand they are the ones that coded themselves into this corner and they need to damn well code themselves back out of it. As already brought up Mythic WS can already be unlocked meaning there is absolutely no incentive to care seeing as the Aftermath, and to lesser extent the job ability enhancments, are the biggest reasons to make one. Relic WS have some decent damage output, but it is far and in between meaning the main priority to making a relic is the hidden 2~3x damage, biggest att boost on weapon (for 1handers) and some of the aftermath effects. Emp's WS are fairly grand, but one of the biggest perks to using them has been the aftermath effect of ODD.

Unless you plan to transfer all of this to people who painstakingly jumped through hurrdles to finish their weapons you're traversing down an incredibly wrong path here. It would be easier to continue with Trials to bring them up to spec or entirely rethink the direction you are taking this expansion. Obviously, tacking on the appropriate +damage increase would be most logical course of action as opposed to tossing the weapons to the wayside. This could easily be done similar to how you are handling Augments for newer gear as is - IE collection routes where collection of points/items/etc. is turned in to enhance the weapons base damage. You did it once already, why are you refusing to do so again? It adds time the players have to put into the weapons prolonging longevity of the game for them. Additionally you can do just as you did with final stages of the relic path by turning in the weapons + items to get a new version of the weapon with increased base damage.

I'm sorry, but this "Idea" is entirely unacceptable and is absolutely not what the player base wants for a progression method of game play. You're effectively negating a lot of time spent on weapons and also giving us a lot of very vague possibility of this even being possible. You shouldn't be wasting time on trying to figure out how to make your idea work and just stick with a tested method already and increase base damage up to equal standing.

[Monchat]

Third option: Make a quest that combines the stats of the 99 weapons and allows you to choose which one to upgrade.

IE. trading "Joey the NPC" a 99 relic and a delve weapon gives you the option to combine the base damage of the delve weapon and the stats / attributes of the relic onto one weapon that will have access to the relic weapon skill.

For bonus points they could allow you to "Upgrade" either one, so that people who like the way delve weapons look could swap to that while people who like their relics could keep that look.

This would keep both delve and relics relevant while simultaneously allowing them to implement their (incredibly stupid) idea of allowing relic / empy weapon skills to be used on other weapons.

which would be the same as replacing the new god tier weapon by a trial to upgrade REM further (gather X amount of material from delve, say 50 ailixir+2). But then the casual would be pissed off, because that would mean having a REM is needed for new content.

[Smokesalot]

I'll just add to the chorus.

Outshining gear is nothing new to an MMO. However, to take a huge runny dump on items people have taken, by the directors admission, hard work and dedication to obtain, is simply obscene. One week, don't throw away your R/M/E, the next week, render them impotent. If the best the dev team can come up with to sate the bloodlust is the ability to use the R/M(ohwait...)/E WS on other weapons, then the people who pay the turds wages need to have a serious look at their employee and act accordingly. (That'd be us, by the way). Matsui would have been better off saying nothing at all, at least that would have been expected. The insult that this 'brainwave' directs at the playerbase is far, FAR worse.

The situation you find yourselves in is pretty unique. I don't hold out any hope for salvaging this fuck up barring a server rollback.

And inb4 butthurt. I don't have a 99 R/M/E weapon. I have two shields, probably the least affected by this mess. For now, at least.