Delve Deeper into Seekers of Adoulin!

[Luvbunny]

It's the goldilock dilemma, need to be exactly just right which is never going to happen for FFXI. At the very least most of the previous endgame events let you go and try it without forcing you to gather various parts that are super rare drops (and you need more than one) just to have a chance to try it. Sure none are the PERFECT one but it gives you variety - yes everything in the game is purely luck based. Even Abyssea is somewhat luck based - you can trigger the yellow but the drop is still random out of 4 possible job seals.

Now we are just being "blocked" at every possible turn by the developers. And every single steps you take on SoA contents are designed to slow down your progress and forced you to grind - and these are not fun grind mind you. Keep your optimistic attitude but don't be blinded by faith alone that it will get better because you know it will not get better soon. We are talking a year or even two years for a hint of improvement. They are severely understaffed - and their tried and true strategy is to make sure that everyone is halted on progression and it will take you thousands of needed items just to get your random augments so you can do it over and over and over and over....

[Yinnyth]

and their tried and true strategy is to make sure that everyone is halted on progression and it will take you thousands of needed items just to get your random augments so you can do it over and over and over and over....

Grind, yes, you now understand the concept of grind. A necessary concept in any game. Even solitaire has grind. You still have not answered where the grind should come from, though you obviously believe the grind should not be getting access to the final fight, it should be something else. So what should the grind be?

Or should the grind not exist at all?

[Caketime]

Solitaire has grind? That's...lol

[Luvbunny]

Grind, yes, you now understand the concept of grind. A necessary concept in any game. Even solitaire has grind. You still have not answered where the grind should come from, though you obviously believe the grind should not be getting access to the final fight, it should be something else. So what should the grind be? Or should the grind not exist at all?

Stop thinking you are so smart and way above everyone else... I understand grind just fine, FFXI is all about grind and not much else. Everything about this game is grind. And there are many types of grind though nothing come close as atrocious as SoA new type of grinds that is blatantly designed to let you not progressing at all but in a very slow baby steps.

Magian Trials weapon is a grind. Every single one of them. But they don't make you spend hours to collect various parts, battling various NMs before you even get your base weapon. "Battling the NMs" and getting better at it is THE GRIND. In most cases, just battling the same normal mobs x 300-600 is the grind. Or doing dynamis for 6 months is the grind - but you don't need to jump so many hoops every time you want to do dynamis. Myhthic is probably the closest to this "new" type of grind and the fact you need your base weapons dropped from normal fodder mobs in dynamis.

None of the NEO events ask you to jump through so many hoops every single time you want to do it. You may be asked to do some missions or some quests ONCE to get key items - or achieve certain ranks. You don't need to gather a bunch of things for Voidwatch, just one person who can pop the NMs. Meeble does not ask you to run around vanadiel just to try it, you can either kill the mini boss again for key items or buy them - to repeat the final boss.

It is plain as day how the grind for SoA is. No one is so dumb and thick to not being able to see it through. Basically various endgames events where you try to augment your base weapons or armors over and over, till kingdom come or new events are introduced. I would rather just have ONE key items and tags that I can use to access these. Put it on 24 hours - 72 hours cool down if they need their stupid "gated wall" but don't force us to gather different parts of simulacrum just to be able to enter. Make it that we can purchase these parts at reasonable amount of bayld or gills similar to the concept of cels for void watch. Then let us actually fight these new NMs over and over and grind it and getting better at it. And come up with new strategies that actually trump and decimate their game design.

[hiko]

What should the grind be then? They tried completely accessible battles with low drop rates for the grind (voidwatch) and people complained that drop rates are too low. They tried completely accessible dungeon crawls which were extraordinarily difficult but had very high drop rates (NNI), and people complained that it was too "luck based" because with their average of 10 floor-ups per run, they had a 0% chance of reaching floor 100. They tried completely accessible boss rushes which were extraordinarily difficult (legion) and people complained that it's too much of a gear check.

It sounds to me like people don't want to grind entry items for events because that takes time. They don't want to grind difficult events because practice and learning from mistakes takes time. They don't want to grind really easy kills with really low drop rates because that takes time. They don't want an event which requires them to get better equipment to do because that takes time.

If no grind is an acceptable grind, then you don't actually want to play the game, you just want to win it and be done with it.

agree about needing some grind, what I don't like is the item needed to enter being <1% drop (if it's same as skirmish parts)i'd rather it being like naak pop after next update (high bayld purchase, price lower with your coallition ranks), coaltion reward ( once each X impr used, the highest you're ranked, the less you need)

and the augment system is not as random as the naysayer say, it's step augment
augment it=> get rank 1 augment
augment it again to get rank2
...

[Vinedrai]

it is sad to see that certain people here thinks that the "old" FFXI wasn't worse if not as bad in terms of blockage like rare drop requirements or stupid repop timers while competing with several other linkshells and/or solo/duo/whatever farmers for participation in end game events. SE has been rapidly making the game much more casual friendly since the first abyssea came out but some people keep freaking out about the accessibility of the newer content... some people just whine for the sake of whining.

how about doing much more accessible events like meebles, NNI, dynamis etc. while also getting bayld stuff and saving more for later, rather than freaking out about the newest events that you won't be able to get to do with a competable group to win and get shinies unless you are a hardcore player anyway? if you have no time to grind pop items or whatever to access and the manpower to win those events, then you should put your priorities right and focus on much more accessible events which still has lots of strong loot. this game is so rich in content that it has something for every type of players. people just need to "see" and not just "look".

[Yinnyth]

Stop thinking you are so smart and way above everyone else... I understand grind just fine, FFXI is all about grind and not much else. Everything about this game is grind. And there are many types of grind though nothing come close as atrocious as SoA new type of grinds that is blatantly designed to let you not progressing at all but in a very slow baby steps.

If I thought I were so much smarter and way above everyone else, I wouldn't deign to speak here. I am no smarter, nor any better than anyone else on these forums. I apologize if my forum "voice" makes it sound like I'm constantly condescending. I assure you that's not my intention.

My intention is to get a straight answer instead of evading a question which is hard to answer because there is no universally accepted answer. Grind is necessary for a game. There needs to be a time sink somewhere in there. Which time sink is acceptable?

Meeble does not ask you to run around vanadiel just to try it, you can either kill the mini boss again for key items or buy them - to repeat the final boss.

Meebles? It's the same damned thing as skirmish. You don't grind Umaghrk 15 times in one day unless you're willing to spend 15 million gil per person. No, you burn 25 days worth of pheromones to do 25 runs to get access to Umaghrk and kill him once then you start over. Those 25 runs before aren't practice for Umaghrk anymore than smacking roots and bees around is practice for skirmish. It's grind designed to delay you from getting all of Umaghrk's drops too soon. It's designed to prolong you playing the game so you don't just go immediately from your current situation to your goal (like just looking at all the cards and organizing them in 4 neat stacks, completely circumventing the rules of solitaire).

So in meebles, you can spend millions of gil or farm 25 wins, or some combination of both. In skirmish, you can spend millions of gil, farm pyres, farm HELM, complete reives, complete coalition assignments, or some combination of those. Why is meebles grind better again?

[Karbuncle]

Meebles? It's the same damned thing as skirmish.

Not... entirely true. Though i don't know the argument at hold here, and i see your point. But my biggest complaint about Skirmish is not its difficulty or anything, its that its stupidly hard to even enter for most all players. If you purchase all 3 pieces, You're going to spend about 8-12mil if you buy all Tier I items, which divided by 6 is still a bout 1.3~2mil a piece, while not a whole lot, is the single most expensive entrance fee for any event in FFXI history.

Coupled with the fact you'd have to find the item on the AH, cause the chances of you finding one otherwise is probably about the same odds of you getting a Coruscanti or any other pulse weapon. The event is just ludicrous to enter, the main way of accessing an event shouldn't be shopping the AH with 12 mil in your pocket ready to spend.

If they were going to make it super expensive, they could have at least sold each piece from an NPC For ~3mil to help burn some gil out of the market too, stave off the minor inflation from Blinkers. (While not as bad as the 07(?) Inflation.. *chills*)

[Yinnyth]

I can see the argument of it perhaps being too hard to enter right now, and I would imagine that's partly by design because they don't want the game to be flooded with these ridiculous new weapons so quickly. If it's just a matter of making the pieces needed for entry less rare, that's an argument I could see eye-to-eye with, as long as it's within moderation.

Perhaps that is the light I should view these arguments in instead of seeing them as "we have to grind things which are not the final event itself in order to get access to the final event when we should just be grinding the final event and getting better at it." Because that point of view I completely disagree with.

[Demon6324236]

If it's just a matter of making the pieces needed for entry less rare, that's an argument I could see eye-to-eye with, as long as it's within moderation.

Thats one thing I find funny about the entire thing with people complaining about Skirmish. I have yet to do it myself but people complaining they need to be cheaper need to realize its a matter of SE making it more common, SE does not effect AH prices, players do.

Perhaps that is the light I should view these arguments in instead of seeing them as "we have to grind things which are not the final event itself in order to get access to the final event when we should just be grinding the final event and getting better at it." Because that point of view I completely disagree with.

Well in all honesty its quite impossible to use another event to practice for the one your doing in most cases. For instance, I can fight Samursk all day in Meebles but it will never be the same as fighting Lord Monkey Face, because they are completely different mobs and need different strats to win against them. Basically, the practice isn't practice, its another mob entirely. The same goes for this and roots probably, roots you have to kill an lifeless object which can not hurt you while keeping off smaller pest enemies which can fight back. Delve and Skirmish from what I understand are more just a series of mobs or NMs to fight which will be strong and have a time limit.