Being a Summoner can be disheartening these days :/

[Herby]

I pulled hate off a pally with refresh2 on myself refresh2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This update blows chunks.....

Well then that PLD was doing something wrong, I never lost hate on ANY healer or supporter yet since the update. And I'm almost exclusively playing PLD atm.

but this is offtopic anyways so please respond to the SMN side of my comments or not at all (I don't intend to be rude, but this IS the SMN Forums)

[HimuraKenshyn]

Pointing out hate in the game now is whack as hell period a pld tanking multiple mobs and all I do is cast refresh2 on me with only being in the same party and the mob stops turns and hit me in the face a wtf moment for sure. That never happen prior to the great enmity fix. With another fix on the way which is also why SMN and BST now have an issue.

From this response:

Hello,

Thanks for the feedback thus far since my previous post.

We've seen a couple of questions, so I would like to provide some responses.

Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list.

Also, while on the subject of pet jobs, below are some notes about beastmaster's job abilities that were not included on the list:

• Ready
  This ability does not generate enmity.
  
  
• Spur/Run Wild
  While these abilities have a static amount of enmity generation, they are time volatile, and because the amount is lost every second it was removed from the scope of our adjustments.

Not sure what game are they playing...

[Herby]

Pointing out hate in the game now is whack as hell period a pld tanking multiple mobs and all I do is cast refresh2 on me with only being in the same party and the mob stops turns and hit me in the face a wtf moment for sure. That never happen prior to the great enmity fix. With another fix on the way which is also why SMN and BST now have an issue.

From this response:


Not sure what game are they playing...

Yet again, not sure if the PLD did enough hate controlling things on that particular Mob that turned on you, but I'm NOT saying, that the Enmity generated by buffs is fine, because it's not. I know that. Saying it's the right direction and saying it's fine are two different things. I just firmly believe that with a few more Adjustments the Enmity System can work again.

That being said, the qoute you posted is quite unsettling because I know for a FACT that Blood Pact: Rage generates hate otherweise the things happening to me wouldn't happening. We really have to communicate that to SE until they fix that no matter how long that may take.

[Pebe]

HimuraKenshyn was the mob an umbril by any chance? I think they have weird hate mechanics on purpose when it comes to magic.

[HimuraKenshyn]

HimuraKenshyn was the mob an umbril by any chance? I think they have weird hate mechanics on purpose when it comes to magic.

Pld did exactly what we have done for years aggro-ed and linked a bunch of mobs he was holding them to be picked off. I was dead another story lol raised up casted refresh2 on myself and got instant hate like really and died. This wasn't in a revive nothing special just really screwed up as far as how we normally super tanked mobs in the past.

So I have seen a number of weird hate quirks while fell cleaving and has to do with what seems like the damage done to damage taken ratio almost like - enmity is earned meaning the mob has 0 hate after producing a certain amount of damage without receiving enough damage so any little action puts the next person higher on the hate list.

This post has it pretty much detailed how bad it is I wonder if the dev even play or test for that matter atm:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...ease-fix-today.

This would do it seems to explain it since enmity can hit 0 then the mobs go to any action performed..

All actions produce 1 CE minimum so obviously it produces some hate, just not much. The reason pets keep losing hate is because they gimp compared to players. Damage from pets took the same reduction that players received. Whatever hate the pet is generating is being instantly lost when they take damage and so when the SMN use's that 1 CE ability it puts them 1CE over their pet.

Talk about ouch....

Well they heard us...

Greetings,

The information mentioned yesterday about summoner's abilities and Blood Pacts not creating hate seems to have raised some questions, so I'd like to follow up on it.

To be precise, Blood Pacts have a non-volatile enmity value of 1. It's been arranged this way so that some enmity remains on the summoner when having a pet perform an action against a monster. If we were to make it so enmity was not placed on the summoner, once the enmity from the avatar is gone, it would cause bugs to occur (such as monsters becoming unclaimed). It's very similar to the way linked monsters don't come after the summoner once the avatar has vanished (except it would happen to the monster you perform the Blood Pact on).

In the case that the avatar's enmity has a minimum value of 1 for both non-volatile and volatile enmity, when executing a Blood Pact, the summoner will receive +1 to their non-volatile enmity, making a total of 2 non-volatile and 1 volatile enmity. When this happens, the target will go after the avatar.

As an adjustment, we are looking into the below:

• When the summoner has enmity, they will not receive +1 to non-volatile enmity when executing a Blood Pact. (The +1 to non-volatile enmity will only occur when the summoner's enmity value is 0.)

The above adjustment is not a job ability adjustment; it will be a change to the process occurring in the programming, so please give us a bit of time for this.

We had looked into taking another approach by adding an enmity+ stat to avatars like beastmaster's familiars have, and to ease up on the enmity lost when taking damage; however, this was geared more towards solo play and there are times when it would be best for avatars not to take hate during party battles, so we decided to adopt the adjustment mentioned above.

[leorez]

went to go solo after coming back from a long break...and good lord they need to change things. Im just standing there while my pet bashes on the mob and i get hate somehow...wtf??

also having a BP take so damn before i can use it again really sucks when you trying to do some sense of damage compared to just about any other job (or to make killing stuff at a decent rate worth it) More places have less room for you to get far away enough for a re-summon, and casting a spell is a death sentence at this point. Why not indiviual timers on all the BPs? why not amp up the power a bit? I barely get to play the job ive enjoyed quite a bit, except for a trigger biotch in VW.

just give the job the fixes it needs, its not overpowered in the slightest...if anything its one of the few jobs that could use a nice damn boost.

[Mokeil]

I think Summoner is pretty much out of the race now.

This last update gave many jobs a slew of new weapons with some rather... impressive stats on them. (For anyone who hasn't seen 'em yet, check out the list here. Go ahead. It's worth the look.)

They even gave Summoner a nod with a Balsam Staff that gives Avatars +60 MAB. And as impressive as that is... I still don't see it putting our Avatars' spike damage on par with where we stand now when compared to what other jobs will be putting out - let alone every one else's DoT from just auto-attacks.

The hefty damage on that staff (157!) makes me think that SE is pushing us towards a more melee-centric role if we want to contribute any damage. I know some folks have found a nice niche with a melee build and all... But I don't even have 800HP as a Taru Summoner. Being in melee range, even with Stoneskin, is often asking to be made to eat dirt on a regular basis.

So, lousy damage output... And given that our support side is still fairly useless outside of 5-6 Wards (which other jobs can generally do better)... Once these new weapons start getting around, it'll be pretty much the end of any use for SMN outside of some Abyssea work (which no one will really need to bother with, what with all the new Adoulin gear).

Without drastic systemic changes to Summoner, I think that's gonna be it for us. Like the thread title says, it's rather disheartening.

[Umisame]

Dmg on weapon should increase dmg of avatars.

Do something SE, tell us if you are going to fix smn soon or not!

FIX ******* SMN SE!

[Okipuit]

While we can't give a specific time frame, please rest assured that the development team is receiving your feedback and they do have plans to adjust avatars.

[Genoxd]

While we can't give a specific time frame, please rest assured that the development team is receiving your feedback and they do have plans to adjust avatars.

I'm sorry, I'm going to be quite rude here.

You've been receiving our feedback and making plans for summoner for the past 8-9 years yet all we've gotten is Fenrir (decent concept no longer relevant) Diabolos (worthless other then Netherblast for Kirin years ago) Odin/Alexander (2hrs that were suppose to be actual avatars)

Now you told us Cait and Atomos would be avatars but we've gotten nothing.

Stop sugar coating it. You don't like SMN because it requires too many resources to create new content for and it's such a unique class that it also requires specific gear that you don't feel like spending time on.'

Your "plans" to adjust avatars are likely in the
-"oh hey Jim I think we should fix avatars they seem broken"
-"oh yeah you're right bob, lets do that some day"

Save for maybe a random mention at a meeting, I doubt you've done crap.

And that Cait video you posted? Honestly I could swap some dat files and I'd have what you showed us, and I'm guessing that's all you actually did.

I really want to start cussing at the dev team for even attempting a post like this, too bad it's not allowed. I honestly find it insulting.