"Occasionaly Attacks Twice" Rune Fencer.

[Demon6324236]

because everyone can pull 20+mil out their bums for a relic in less than six months. empy meh idk how much it costs.... your statement however could be used the opposite way. they did tell you 6 months ago that Run wasn't getting said weapons... yet everyone still treats this as though it was yesterday's news... I havent even seen any new weapons outside of coalition gear i know skirms drop gear im sure youll find plenty of weapons soon enough. if not GS has some of the best to offer high endgame wise. sides.... your a tank.. not a DD you don't need ragnarok to tank and might be far from practicle

Relics are about 100M on my server as of right now. It takes 6 months of Dynamis at 100 currency a run, 3 at 200 a run, 2 at 300 a run, I myself can make a Relic in 2 months if I want to badly enough, I do not right now because I hate Dynamis, but the point is, its possible easily, even if you do poorly at Dyna you could have made one in time if they were on the weapons. RUN is on the new GS which ties or tops Ragnarok, and the point is not about being the best DD, but rather real balance, balance is not create when you exclude jobs from the strongest weapons, no matter their design intentions, rather you leave the job weaker than others simply because of the date it was released.

[Umichi]

what's required for that 100 piece a run? I'm pretty sure you used either a dnc or a dnc to help get faster procs? 100 mill is even worse than my guestimate. 6 months is with a dedicated group. i find it hard enough to even find some peeps from my ls to help me build my relic. and i know for sure a endgame linkshell isn't going to let someone like me obtain a relic ahead of someone else. So from my perspective even if i knew RUN was coming out. on top of all the things im already busy with and my inability to find peoples to hunt currency with im not reaching anywhere near 100+mil or 100+ currency per run as an average player.. of which i am.. I'm barely finishing my first stage and i started 2 months ago

[Demon6324236]

what's required for that 100 piece a run? I'm pretty sure you used either a dnc or a dnc to help get faster procs? 100 mill is even worse than my guestimate. 6 months is with a dedicated group. i find it hard enough to even find some peeps from my ls to help me build my relic. and i know for sure a endgame linkshell isn't going to let someone like me obtain a relic ahead of someone else. So from my perspective even if i knew RUN was coming out. on top of all the things im already busy with and my inability to find peoples to hunt currency with im not reaching anywhere near 100+mil or 100+ currency per run as an average player.. of which i am.. I'm barely finishing my first stage and i started 2 months ago

I do about 150 a run on average on RDM/DNC solo in Valk, I do 150~200 on my BST character solo in which I also do Valk. If I am not mistaken, your average relic takes about 18000 currency, 100 a run means 3000 a month, 18/3=6, which means 6 months to make a relic solo if you are doing worse than I do on either of my characters on average. I do not see how the average player in incapable of this, everyone can level BST, everyone can do it in a couple of days, everyone can use the AH to buy a stack of Falcorrs and food to heal them, and every BST can do some easy seal/+2 farming, even solo with your newly leveled BST provided you have some decent atma. All of this is offtopic, but still, Emps are able to be built in less than a month by anyone seriously trying to do it, even the harder/more annoying ones like Chloris and Glavoid, you can at least get a level 85 Emp, and I already explained the time estimates on Relics, so its not as though it would have been impossible for people to get these things done in the 6 month period.

[Umichi]

see the prerequisite here is you have to have dnc subed in order to pull it off. i don't plan on leveling dnc or using it as a sub so *shrug* your move now. and sure everyone and their mom can level bst.. but do i have to force myself to do something i don't like just so i can accomplish things... it's like people forcing me to go whm to events even though we have 4-5 and i want to be drg.

TDLR not everyone should be forced to level bst just to meet your demands or a reasonable time frame for currency. even if someone averages 2-3 hours a day on this game that's still 1 hour out of your 3 that your stuck doing tedious work and as an average player im not gonna be farming every day. not everyone is super rich, elite, badass.., or conforms.

[Demon6324236]

Ok, lets say they added a brand new relic weapon into the game, just for RUN. Now, lets say everyone started working on that, what you consider average players, would have no shot at getting this in less than five years at the rate you said your going (2 months for the first stage, which is 500 or less currency, would mean about 6 years to make an entire relic) so they would take a long time to get it. Players like myself could make the same weapon in 2~3 months without much problem, we would simply muddle through doing Dynamis for a while and be done with it.

Now if you look at things this way, people playing more still have a much greater advantage to those who are going much slower. The first comment on this subject was saying that it would be unfair for people who already own Ragnarok or Caladbolg to be able to use them on RUN because they would start out ahead. My point being, there is no real advantage or disadvantage, if they were added to the weapons, there would have been 6 months to work on it, fair ground for all in either case. The problem is that some people do not want to put in the work to do it, or do not have time to.

You complain in your post about not conforming, sorry, there are other ways around it, you play DRG for instance, you can still do JA procs I'm sure, you have a few jumps at your disposal to do just that, it may be slower but I am sure a DRG could pull it off. Also, Dynamis is 2 hours, not 1 hour, so your time is actually a bit off, same with your earlier estimate of money, which makes me question your actual knowledge over how making a relic goes and how easy/hard one can be. I myself make my Excalibur in 6 months because I hated Dyna and dragged it out over a long period because of that fact, I did not want to do it, it bored me, and I hated it.

You said something about being forced to go WHM to events rather than DRG, I know that exact feel, I main RDM, so I am sure you can understand where I stand on getting to goto events on my job of preference. The point of the entire thing is that there are ways to work around it, you can not complain about being unable to get a relic when you are perfectly capable of working around your problem on your own, and simply refuse to due to stubborn preference. I never told you to level BST or DNC either, some jobs do Dyna without either of those, for instance it is easily possible to go do Dyna on PUP/THF and rival a BST in how much currency you pull doing JA mobs, it simply takes skill and time to learn how to perform on the job inside of Dynamis.

In the end, the entire point of everything I am and have been saying is that there was time to prepare, and everyone would have been on fair ground had they said back at Vanafest that we would have RMEs on RUN and GEO just like every other job. The same disadvantages apply for everyone in either case, either we had 6 months to work, which actually means people had a better chance of being ready upon their release, or we went without them, and the 'hardcore' players will still advance these jobs much faster than others. In a way, I just realized it would have been better to be able to work on the jobs weapons for the last 6 months, as it would give everyone a chance to prepare before the release, rather than having to wait till release to really start on working on the job because now we know its actual choices on what to use.





The entire point of this thread is not about Emp/Relic, as I said earlier and should be obvious by its title, its about the OAT GS. A weapon which is on the same path as the Emp for 3 trials, then goes on an entirely different path. Its a weapon many people own, just like the Elemental GS, the Borealis, the Hoarfrost Blade, the Gram, and many other high tier GS that were out before this update. There is no reason RUN should not be on the weapon, it is not unfairly powerful, its not better than the new GS from Skirmish, its just another GS, one of which is actually fairly good, and many people want for it. This weapon would not put RUN high on the DPS charts, in fact the OAT properties would probably be somewhat diminished by the high amounts of multi-attack gear that RUN gets like Thaumas Body.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The entire point of this thread is not about Emp/Relic, as I said earlier and should be obvious by its title, its about the OAT GS. A weapon which is on the same path as the Emp for 3 trials, then goes on an entirely different path. Its a weapon many people own, just like the Elemental GS, the Borealis, the Hoarfrost Blade, the Gram, and many other high tier GS that were out before this update. There is no reason RUN should not be on the weapon, it is not unfairly powerful, its not better than the new GS from Skirmish, its just another GS, one of which is actually fairly good, and many people want for it. This weapon would not put RUN high on the DPS charts, in fact the OAT properties would probably be somewhat diminished by the high amounts of multi-attack gear that RUN gets like Thaumas Body.

I'm glad someone can read.

[Rezeak]

First let me make my self clear "I believe RUN should of had access to all Magian weapon including Emperyans"

Great Sword Tier (ignoring skirmish)

Ragnarok > OAT > Emperyan

So the reasoning that RUN isn't on OAT is most likly the same as why it's not on Emperyan and well I don't have that flawed reasoning, SE does.

As for the reasoning making sense .... nope lol RUN is probably on the same level as PLD when it comes to Great sword DD and well I don't see Ragna PLDs toppling DRKs, WARs, SAMs, MNKs, DRGs ect.

Either way, as little reasoning as SE has, asking for RUN to be able to use OAT over Emperyan(a weaker weapon) with no solid reasoning outside of it not being an empyrean is just as silly and just comes across as "I HAVE A OAT GSD BUT NOT AN EMPERYAN".

[Rustic]

Can anyone tell me what would break if RUN were on the entire physical Magian path including Empyrean? We have lots of very gifted number crunchers out there, so I'm sure someone could tell us what would be so horribly unbalanced about it.

It actually implies that RUN's AF path might have something similar to what you'd get w/Magian physical. Also, RUN being an "elemental damage" sword user, having the elemental path being their weapon path only makes sense, even if you'd be able to do nice things with the other option.

[Camiie]

It actually implies that RUN's AF path might have something similar to what you'd get w/Magian physical.

That would be pretty darn powerful AF if it gave them an exclusive weaponskill, high weapon damage, and some degree of multiple attacks (DA%/OA2-4).

Also, RUN being an "elemental damage" sword user, having the elemental path being their weapon path only makes sense, even if you'd be able to do nice things with the other option.

It doesn't really make sense considering jobs known for their magical prowess are offered the option of purely physical weapons, and jobs with zero magic ability can access elemental weapons.

[Hayward]

Back on topic, I'd say go for a MND+/MDB+ Tenebreuse (Leviatites & Aqua Geodes are dirt cheap, unless some schmo is jacking up the prices) or the STR+/Attack version (if you have gil to burn).