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  1. #31
    Player Horadrim's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    411
    Character
    Horadrim
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarchery View Post
    Early adoption tax is right. I cry whenever I see Comet for less than 100k.... since I paid over 2 million for it back in the fall of 2011.
    You'd think after 10 years people would accept that some people have seen this process more than once, but meh. I grabbed all of the spells under 300k and I'm waiting until I see more drop via Skirmish or find mobs who drop them.
    (0)
    Somewhere in space... this could be happening right now.

  2. #32
    Player Babekeke's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
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    Windurst
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    2,273
    People who wanted Meteor when it was first released paid 30-50 million gil for it.

    People who want all the GEO spells as soon as they are released pay 8 mil for the lot.

    I don't see the issue.
    (3)

  3. #33
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    388
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    I personally don't see the ideology in making players take an "early adoption tax" for a job starting out. I never agreed with that, even with the past jobs. Puppetmaster is a good example of such a "tax", yet in the same expansion Blue Mage was balanced so that you had access to abilities as long as you had the appropriate Blue Magic skill.

    I don't think it's necessary and it feels like an arbitrary rule simply based on past dealings with jobs being released. Rare spells like Meteor, Arise, and even slightly more common but albeit rare spells were released well after a job was released. The problem I see with Geomancer is it is a job with a yet defined role, as is most new jobs. SE will state their vision but example such as Ninja will show the playerbase will use it where it's needed.

    With a good deal of the good debilitating effects that they advertised about the job locked, it leaves Geomancer out in the cold and takes longer for people to test the spells and abilities to their maximum to provide proper feedback for the job to get adjustments.

    In my opinion, the current spells they have I don't see justifying the rarity, nor do I think it should take several months to a year for the job to get access to abilities released at the start. I see the value in adding spells that are rare at first, and if it were only like two Indi- and two -ra spells, I would have understood it better and found value in it the pursuit of completing my list.

    The job might be newly released but especially given the rate of experience gain by all jobs, there is no logic in such a large roadblock. Rune Fencer was released with this job and for the most part it has no immediate hindrances in the same manner. What would justify it an "early adoption tax" on Geomancer but not with Rune Fencer?

    I would be curious to hear of players who are pro- "early adoption tax" to newly released jobs. Who play Geomancer and attempt to use it beyond leveling to 99 in wait of updates and spells being discovered. I'm not against seeing it differently, but I see no logic in it upon job release. (bolded for emphasis not to be cut apart to say I'm against rare spells at all)
    (1)

  4. #34
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
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    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rwolf View Post
    Good points.
    I think the early adoption tax for BLU lasted for years in the sense that you had to have sea access to learn essential higher tier spells. I'm not saying I minded that, but there was a different kind of "balance" that just didn't involve gil. Also, after 1/80 on Refueling I was ready to pay someone 8 million gil to learn it if I could!

    I thought they had stopped the early adoption tax with SCH and DNC though. SCH may have hurt had you not leveled mage jobs before, but if you had it was cheap, at least spell-wise. I loved that the ultimate SCH spells involved a five minute trip to an NPC when Arise and Meteor were 50 million gil ... lol

    I agree with your point that Meteor and Arise are not really comparable here because they were billed as ultimate spells for already extremely useful and powerful jobs. Also, both spells are very nice, but neither are really essential for high performance on either job. We still don't know where GEO will ultimately fit in, but Frailty and Malaise seem pretty important, and I wouldn't set foot in Abyssea without Blizarra II. All three fall in the 500k+ early adoption price. However...

    While I agree an early adoption tax shouldn't go on terribly long, the GEO one just doesn't seem that bad to me. I waited a bit on the 500k+ ones and just today grabbed a few of them for 100k each on AH. A few weeks into the expansion wasn't too long to wait for me, especially since I don't yet have a compelling reason to use the job for any of the activities I still do.
    (1)

  5. #35
    Player Rwolf's Avatar
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    Apr 2011
    Posts
    388
    Character
    Rwolf
    World
    Bismarck
    Main Class
    RDM Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    I think the early adoption tax for BLU lasted for years in the sense that you had to have sea access to learn essential higher tier spells. I'm not saying I minded that, but there was a different kind of "balance" that just didn't involve gil. Also, after 1/80 on Refueling I was ready to pay someone 8 million gil to learn it if I could!
    I agree with that and I actually like that kind of balance. Although, none of the spells gained in Al'Taieu made you underperform. They are great definitely, especially Disseverment and Actinic Burst. But you still did good damage with spells like Frenetic Rip and Hysteric Barrage. Which was my bread and butter until I had access to Al'Taieu. I also feel your pain, it took me an actual 40 hours combined to learn cocoon of all things. I thought all the blue magic spells were that way and almost quit the job.

    Quote Originally Posted by Merton9999 View Post
    While I agree an early adoption tax shouldn't go on terribly long, the GEO one just doesn't seem that bad to me. I waited a bit on the 500k+ ones and just today grabbed a few of them for 100k each on AH. A few weeks into the expansion wasn't too long to wait for me, especially since I don't yet have a compelling reason to use the job for any of the activities I still do.
    That's interesting they are 100k each in the AH on your server. On Bismarck, we haven't had any of them sold or in stock. If they were on the AH to some consistency by now, I would think that is good balance. I can understand an early adoption price as inflation from sheer demand (such as the Petrified Log price spike). But after a couple weeks, it should be evening out in price. 2-3 million spent early sure. 8 million to start? not so much.

    In my opinion, to be an effective class players should already be able to contemplate a compelling reason to use the job for any of the activities they do. Or at least knowing what the job can fully do, can offer suggestions to bring Geomancer to being desirable for events. There's a lot more discussion with Rune Fencer and it's capabilities because it's easier to bring to it's current maximum.

    I think a solution would be just to alleviate these spells in procurement so more appear on the AH. For example, possible reward from reives as well. Or specify it to lair reives which are more rarely as an incentive to do them with higher loot.
    (0)

  6. #36
    Player Merton9999's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    528
    Character
    Mordru
    World
    Quetzalcoatl
    Main Class
    SCH Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Rwolf View Post
    That's interesting they are 100k each in the AH on your server. On Bismarck, we haven't had any of them sold or in stock. If they were on the AH to some consistency by now, I would think that is good balance. I can understand an early adoption price as inflation from sheer demand (such as the Petrified Log price spike). But after a couple weeks, it should be evening out in price. 2-3 million spent early sure. 8 million to start? not so much.

    In my opinion, to be an effective class players should already be able to contemplate a compelling reason to use the job for any of the activities they do. Or at least knowing what the job can fully do, can offer suggestions to bring Geomancer to being desirable for events. There's a lot more discussion with Rune Fencer and it's capabilities because it's easier to bring to it's current maximum.

    I think a solution would be just to alleviate these spells in procurement so more appear on the AH. For example, possible reward from reives as well. Or specify it to lair reives which are more rarely as an incentive to do them with higher loot.
    You know, after I read this I was afraid I just got lucky for a day. But either there are some altruistic souls on Quetz or people are spamming Skirmish here because I just got 4 more (indi- and -ra) for 100k each and a couple others for a bit more. I'm guessing it won't be long before this happens on other servers, and I'm probably dumb for not waiting on an even larger price drop.

    I certainly wouldn't mind if scrolls became even more readily available through other means, like you suggested. But even if we look beyond early adoption, the history of FFXI is filled with expensive spell prices for essentials. Raise III and Erase I remember being bad for a while, though luckily there was some spam activity when I leveled WHM. Phalanx is still pretty bad for new RDM/PLD/RUN. I don't think these fit the OP's original request, though, since there are other ways to obtain them besides gil. But it turns out that's abundantly true for GEO too now, at least on my server.
    (0)

  7. #37
    Player Horadrim's Avatar
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    Jul 2011
    Location
    Windurst
    Posts
    411
    Character
    Horadrim
    World
    Asura
    Main Class
    COR Lv 99
    I think people are taking the "early adoption tax" concept too literally.

    It isn't really a thing people go into the game thinking "omfg, let's make them pay!!" it is the rush mentality that comes from trying to do things as early as possible. Everything is more expensive when the demand is high -- and the Early Adoption Tax is just a side effect of the vast majority of people trying to do things the quickest way possible.

    The simple fact of the matter is that GEO is a brand new job from a brand new area and all of the most expensive spells have been shown to have alternative drop points. Just like I can't complain about Skirmish items being expensive this early, it is asinine for people to complain about there not being an alternative way to acquire them when they haven't given the economy enough time to work properly.

    Just like how, in real life, you'd call someone stupid for having bought a Wii for $2,000 just because it was new, sold out, and they HAD TO HAVE IT NYAO. It is asinine to complain about a problem which will solve itself if you give it time and be patient. Just wait for them to be in stock and problem solved. I've already seen -Ra II spells and higher level Indi spells showing up in the Asura AH for around 200k less than the NPC price. Demanding SE add more and more places for the stuff to come from when we've already seen them dropping from different events is silly...

    That's like if I had demanded they add Aerns to non-sea areas back when I was BLU just because I didn't have Sea access...
    (2)
    Somewhere in space... this could be happening right now.

  8. #38
    Player Reou's Avatar
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    Jan 2013
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Reou
    World
    Fenrir
    Main Class
    WAR Lv 99
    Quote Originally Posted by Horadrim View Post
    I think people are taking the "early adoption tax" concept too literally.

    It isn't really a thing people go into the game thinking "omfg, let's make them pay!!" it is the rush mentality that comes from trying to do things as early as possible. Everything is more expensive when the demand is high -- and the Early Adoption Tax is just a side effect of the vast majority of people trying to do things the quickest way possible.

    The simple fact of the matter is that GEO is a brand new job from a brand new area and all of the most expensive spells have been shown to have alternative drop points. Just like I can't complain about Skirmish items being expensive this early, it is asinine for people to complain about there not being an alternative way to acquire them when they haven't given the economy enough time to work properly.

    Just like how, in real life, you'd call someone stupid for having bought a Wii for $2,000 just because it was new, sold out, and they HAD TO HAVE IT NYAO. It is asinine to complain about a problem which will solve itself if you give it time and be patient. Just wait for them to be in stock and problem solved. I've already seen -Ra II spells and higher level Indi spells showing up in the Asura AH for around 200k less than the NPC price. Demanding SE add more and more places for the stuff to come from when we've already seen them dropping from different events is silly...

    That's like if I had demanded they add Aerns to non-sea areas back when I was BLU just because I didn't have Sea access...
    This. I know part of it is the way people level these jobs but majority of people who are 99 geo now simply abyssea burned the job to 99 anyway. To actually have to put in some effort to acquire the spells seems entirely reasonable and by effort I mean a week or two tops of casually farming gil.
    (0)

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