Does anyone else see this job having trouble as a tank?

[Cabalabob]

I just can't see RUN being able to out-tank PLD, even if they add a wave of magical enemies they will probably still have physical attacks and so far my RUN kinda crumbles under physical attacks even if its able to resist practically all magic directed at it. I also see it having trouble holding hate off a PLD, I was checking to see how well I could hold hate against my stalwart shield npc without provoke and I just couldn't keep hate, if I can't keep hate off an npc I really can't see myself taking hate off a player PLD even if I don't have flash yet.

[Tennotsukai]

yeah..i agree. more work needs done on Run

[Horadrim]

I just can't see RUN being able to out-tank PLD, even if they add a wave of magical enemies they will probably still have physical attacks and so far my RUN kinda crumbles under physical attacks even if its able to resist practically all magic directed at it. I also see it having trouble holding hate off a PLD, I was checking to see how well I could hold hate against my stalwart shield npc without provoke and I just couldn't keep hate, if I can't keep hate off an npc I really can't see myself taking hate off a player PLD even if I don't have flash yet.

...RUN isn't supposed out "out-tank" PLD.

Meanwhile, there's obviously adjustments they'll be making to the job. All it really needs is for "Converts physical damage to magic damage" gear and a better way to hold hate and it'd be set.

[Volkai]

Rune Fencer is the Magic tank. Leave the task of personifying a brick wall to the Paladins, focus on making Elementals and mage monsters impotent walking sacks of Exp and Items.

[orakio]

Group 1 and 2 merits are going to be key in determining the fate of Run overall. The framework is there and sound but I believe that a couple solid merits are really needed to give it a use outside of extremely biased content where 90%+ of the damage is non-physical.

What I am curious about is what SE intends for the job outside of the times that it is a tank, because for most content Rune Fencer won't be a tank as a mnk or sam or pal or nin should all outmitigate it on the physical end of things really. I think that Rune Fencer could honestly use some physical mitigation tools outside of just inquartata and a 40% uptime on swordplay, or a boost to its damage dealing such that it serves at least as a tier2 damage dealer, i.e. not drk/war/mnk but maybe 1h job level.

Also, embolden is really subpar for me. Way too much downside for a 10minute cooldown. When you see the kind of tradeoff (133% total potency, 50% total duration) you at least expect a shorter cooldown or more favorable situation on the boost (150% potency, 66% duration or something along those lines). Could use a look, although lets be honest SE won't really change it for 3+ months if ever.

[Volkai]

What happens for those merits (and for JSE of all sorts) will probably depend a lot on what we do with RUN as-is. So let's get to it and show them what we want with action.

[hideka]

Rune Fencer is the Magic tank. Leave the task of personifying a brick wall to the Paladins, focus on making Elementals and mage monsters impotent walking sacks of Exp and Items.

yea but it really only works for you... RUN is severely lacking in the Party defense realm and needs alot of work. Runes need to do about 2x their current damage, Lunge is nice, but the recast is way too long, same goes for like EVERY WARD..... i swear its like SE got a Recast boner on RUN and geo.

[Crimson_Slasher]

What im seeing RUN will be good at, is being a magic sponge, not a true tank. Think of those mobs who tend to cripple the DDs sitting on its toes with aoe damage. Well my thought is if the aoe damage is magical, runefencer trades off a little damage (compared to drk, war, drg, mnk, sam) to shrug off the bulk of the damage. So in a nutshell, a slightly more durrible DD.

[Horadrim]

All the job needs is the very likely "Converts Physical Damage to Magical Damage" gear that you can expect it will get.

Frankly, it is impractical to say anything about the job until we see what the AF/Relic/Empy/Merits will look like.

[Nureus]

Personally from what I have seen for the job there seems to be quite a few problems that come up with trying to make this job into a tank. For taking magic damage it seems like it's going to work quite well but since the job has to melee range and even magic casting classes have melee attacks. The way SE has this job set up for tanking the melee hits we have parrying which well as everyone knows is one of the defensive skills that depending on for your Survival isn't the best bet and Evasion with out bonuses from both Gear/Job Traits/Job Abilities can prove to be unreliable for lowering the amount of physical damage taken. On another note increasing Evasion though gear especially with a two-handed weapon will lower it's damage output which telling from the way this job is constructed is how it's suppose to hold hate other then flash. The only other way of looking at lowering the amount of damage taken physically on this job is to look for -DT or -PDT Gear which the job at least has a few options here with gear like the Dux Set but still no where near the numbers that a heavy armor wearing job or even a slightly heavyer armor wearing job like NIN can wear.

So in my honest opinion for tanking like SE wants it to I think the job is going to need quite a few changes to allow it to take the hits or avoid them while the monster isn't casting. They can do this in many different ways as far as I can tell be it either an increase to duration or decrease to recast on the Job Ability like Swordplay so it can be kept up full time. Adding more Job Abilities that increase it's evasion or parrying depending on which is more preferred to create. The addition of Job Traits like Evasion Bonus is another path that could be taken with the job to lower it's damage taken or even the addition of spells like Reprisal that increase the rate at which RUN can Parry or Evade Attacks.

If the job doesn't get anything like this, an increase to it's gear choices to include heavyer armor sets, a buff to parrying rate like SE managed to do with Shields on PLD, or some kind of improvement to it's tanking physical attacks then I fear that RUN will probably just get pushed to the way side for PLDs with a relic shield that can take physical as well as magical damage with out much trouble. A good example of this if people remember when RoZ was added to the game SAM was Suppose to be a Parrying/EVA Physical Tank and NIN being a DD with Shurikin but people found out that NIN was actually the better choice for Tanking because of the way the game mechanics were set up.

On a final note I know that the job isn't set in stone yet being only about a week old and not having gear like it's AF 1-3 done up yet but personally the more information and ideas that the Dev team can get and the sooner then hopefully the sooner we can see the job patched up and make it into a tank before the player base dismisses it entirely.