Congratulations on your level??

[Elrim]

Can't edit post on my phone, but google Uthgard DAoC or EQ progression server for proof that it can be done. There is a niche demand for this that should not be written off.

[Stan64]

I think the comment "you are not learning the job by burning it" is kinda wrong. First off you don't have most of the skills you would use in an end-game scenario. While you get a new skill and can test it out it's just fresh and untested for three minutes, then you need to a long time until you get the next one. While if you burn your job you can test everything out after each other. While you wont have the skills necessary to wield certain weapons and magic potently that's something you work out afterwards or as good as you can while you level.

Now when you have your gimped 99 characters you can spend the time doing easy endgame getting basic sets and learning more about the abilities of your job. Hopefully you found some good thread/guide/information about how your job works and try to weave it into the learning process.

All this is for me the correct way, using the collective knowledge of the players to get into the game faster and faster. And enjoy what you really want to do. Fun events, casual events, hardcore events, missions, crafting, grinding. There is something for everyone.

And if someone says you are doing something wrong with how you play, ask them what, look into it and refine. Don't get hurt and reminisce about older days that didn't exist.

[Candi]

I think the comment "you are not learning the job by burning it" is kinda wrong. First off you don't have most of the skills you would use in an end-game scenario. While you get a new skill and can test it out it's just fresh and untested for three minutes, then you need to a long time until you get the next one. While if you burn your job you can test everything out after each other. While you wont have the skills necessary to wield certain weapons and magic potently that's something you work out afterwards or as good as you can while you level.

Now when you have your gimped 99 characters you can spend the time doing easy endgame getting basic sets and learning more about the abilities of your job. Hopefully you found some good thread/guide/information about how your job works and try to weave it into the learning process.

All this is for me the correct way, using the collective knowledge of the players to get into the game faster and faster. And enjoy what you really want to do. Fun events, casual events, hardcore events, missions, crafting, grinding. There is something for everyone.

And if someone says you are doing something wrong with how you play, ask them what, look into it and refine. Don't get hurt and reminisce about older days that didn't exist.

This mad me laugh- then I thought that you might be serious. I shook my head but laughed even more.. Please tell me you are joking..

[Karbuncle]

If you think you need to spend months or weeks playing a job grinding in slow exp parties to "Learn" it... You must spend your time with a lot of slow people.

I can learn a job in a couple hours given the resources, I.E Internet, Math, reading, understanding the job abilities. Its not really that hard. But I'm actually going to level here and just say it, Everyone has a different learning curve. If it takes you 45 minutes to figure out how to cook Pizza Rolls, Yah you're probably not going to be too good at your job if you burn it to 99... But for those people who payed attention in Math class, know the formulas, how JA's effect what, etc... Its not going to matter if they burn it to 99 in a day or not, They're still going to know wtf they're doing, or at least know how to know wtf they're doing.

You don't even need to know math, or formulas, All it takes is reading other peoples studies/research on the subject... thats what i do, browse the latest information forums every so often to see if anything new has been learned or is going on. They always summarize their findings.

Just because you can't learn how to do your job without spending a month on it doesn't mean other people aren't quicker at catching on to things. This has been beaten to death but in all honesty, I'm not surprised by the fact you find it hard to believe a person can burn a job to 99 in and day and still learn it, what it boils down too... Stupid People gunna be stupid, Smart people gunna be smart, No amount of time is going to alleviate this, because those bad at the job lack the will or want to learn, and in most cases, cant even understand how they're doing it wrong.

Even if you put your average "tard" in a vacuum of perfect situations, He'll likely still never learn his job because he has no WANT to learn his job. He'll play "his way for his 12.95" and come out the other end in full Aurore with a level 57 Greatsword winning about how hard the game is and where Temp items are for Reives.

............

Sorry.. Its just, This topic has been discussed so much it makes me angry that some people still can't comprehend that bad players will be bad no matter how they level up, and good players will be good under any conditions... Its not about how you hit 99, Its about your willingness to learn.

Hell, THF Is my favorite job, 99 Mandau, all these gearsets, and i still spend time on forums reading up on whats best right now, new gearsets, new everything... Its just like being a doctor, or any field with heavy improvements often... You'll have to relearn it every so often, and if you don't want to put the time to be a good player, You're going to suck at the job rather you spent 2 months leveling on crabs, or 1 day in Abyssea.

I should also mention, I don't think you have to be perfect to enjoy the game, i don't think you have to know the math and formulas to have fun, Its just, If you're going to complain about how Abyssea ruined high level players by taking the "learning" out of exping, I'm going to bring in the fact that you're wrong, which usually invovles no small amount of technical babble.

[Candi]

Your opinion is not a fact. That, is common sense. You aren't right anymore than I am.

I appreciate your view that a good player will be good under any condition, but the rest of your response is not appealing. If you have to use belittlement and narcissistic comments you degrade your point.

I can respect your opinion on the topic, but I cannot respect how you argued your point.

A valid point requires no hostility.

[Hercule]

I 300% agree with Candi on everything in this thread

[Alhanelem]

There are many old games with progression server or classic servers that use old school parties to group and level

Many? I only know of one- everquest. It was something of a success there because anyone who still plays everquest is the hardest of the hardcore in terms of MMO players, so it was pretty much right up the entire playerbase's ally particularly if they wanted to start over. For more recent games, that's far less likely to be the case.

[Karbuncle]

Your opinion is not a fact. That, is common sense. You aren't right anymore than I am.

Fair enough, though i dont recall claiming otherwise... but hey, Ihave short term memory. Still, The rest of my non-fact post is common sense. Good players will be good, Bad will be bad. Abyssea changed nothing. Let me introduce you to what is indeed a fact.

Nostalgia'dPlayer: "ToAU Ruined Exping, Colibri/Merits are too easy"
Nostalgia'dPlayer: "Astral Burning ruined exp, Its too easy"
Nostalgia'dPlayer:"Abyssea Ruined Exp, Its too easy"

Players will always Look for a scape-goat to blame when they realize... "damn, people around me are gimp and stupid and can't follow orders". In reality, this isn't Abysseas fault, there's just a lot of dumb
mf'ers in the world, and they're a lot more apparent due to the " Pick up " Nature of the game right now.

I appreciate your view that a good player will be good under any condition, but the rest of your response is not appealing. If you have to use belittlement and narcissistic comments you degrade your point.

I believe it only degrades it only to those who chose ignorant pride over dignified intelligence. Those who are willing to learn and accept easily see past any perceived hostility and see its more of just "Ranting at nobody" than it is picking on one individual, i do this a lot. Its rarely about attacking a person and more about debating a point of view, as is the goal of forums.

Still, I have shown that i understand your side of the argument to the extent i can when i have a different opinion. I've made references several times that I understand the Nostalgia, cause i feel it too. I understand why people find oldschool FFXI Attractive, The social aspect of leveling the old way is gone, Being congratulated on your level is out the window in most situations... But all of this is recaptured in Endgame. Grats on your drop, etc. Its not about ignoring your points, its about debating their legitimacy.

If what you're saying is an opinion, thats great, but I'm not going to let SE think its a great idea to waste time and resources creating a rolled back server, when My opinion feels its not necessary or needed, and they should focus their efforts on future content, not Nostalgia.

As you've said clearly, My Opinion is every bit as valid as yours, this is why I'm stating it. When it comes to opinions, Accepting someones opinion isnt the same as believing it or thinking its right. I can understand where you're coming from, and still think you're super dooper wrong.

A valid point requires no hostility.

This is only true if people show the willingness to accept opinions that differ from theirs. There are, despite what some people try to peddle, people who only respond and understand or even LISTEN to people if they're taking a firm, somewhat hostile tone. Its sad but it happens, and its out there.

So far, your posts have A) Laughed at anyone who disagreed with you B) Accused them of not reading your posts C) Laughing AND Asking if their serious, then laughing more. So on my first hostile note of this post, take that "no hostility" and sell it to someone else cause at this point you're being hypocritical. When you show respect to other posters, I show respect to you.

And no personal offense to you, But so Far every person I've met on the "RoseTinted 2004 FFXI" Bandwagon has been adamant in refuses to admit that 2004 FFXI Kinda sucked, and that the only thing they're remembering is the nostalgia. Plus when someone brings up how "Abyssea ruined FFXI", I want to punch a wall, Because since Abyssea, FFXI is still very much alive and populated... and if FFXI was "Ruined", SE wouldnt have bothered with a new Expansion like Adoulin, they'd of just released more Nickle-dime Expansions like ACP.

Though back to my first sentence, Nostalgia isn't an opinion, its a psychological fact... People romanticize the past because its something they can never recapture. Hint: Your first Girlfriend/Boyrfriend, Your first Kiss, Your first day of School... You're never reliving those days, so you always long for them. This is what you're doing with FFXI. You may not realize or accept it, But This is whats happening to you. It happens to everyone who grows old. It happened to me, It happened to random confused guy above me, and it happened to the posters two pages back.

Nostalgia happens. I know for a fact I look back fondly on old FFXI, but it was never because i enjoyed Grinding Crabs for hours, or putting together failed parties... It was because of the friends I had. Your not going to recapture the joy on some Vacuum Server of Nostalgia, You'll only feel that way again if you let yourself enjoy the new FFXI, with new friends.

[Alhanelem]

I believe it only degrades it only to those who chose ignorant pride over dignified intelligence.

It degrades it to anyone with any sense of dignity. You should not be berating and belittling. You can make your point without resorting to it. You don't need to be offensive to influence people.

[Hercule]

You Karbuncle and Alhanlem with your 3000+ and 4000+ messages on these forums should really stop to post your opinions on everything that poping here, you always repeat the same thing tirelessly, you're always think you're right on everything and argue with other people that don't think like you as if you were at war, personaly I'm just tired of seeing you and I really think for most of the FFXI community you're just a curse who contribued to slowly kill this game and pull it down.