Geirskogul Aftermath

[Ophannus]

Platform: Windows
ISP: AT&T
Type of Internet Connection: dsl
Internet Connection Speed: 15Mbps
Date & Time: Present
Frequency: Every time Aftermath from Gungnir is up
Character Name: Ophannus
Race: Hume M
World: Odin
Main Job: Dragoon, Lv99
Support Job: Red Mage
Area and Coordinates: Occurs in any area where Weapon Skills can be utilized.
Monster Name: Any mob
Steps:
1) Gather 100% TP and use the weapon skill Geirskogul.
2) Let mobs attack you physically while Shock Spikes aftermath are up.
3) Notice that over hundreds or even thousand of attacks, stun almost never procs. I have counted the number of times I have successfully stunned low level targets over a few hours and it's about 1-2%. Is this normal? When I attack a mob with shock spikes I invariably become stunned about 20-30% of the time. Furthermore Shock Spikes in general are about the same potency regardless of their source whether its form Gungnir Aftermath or the Black Mage spell. Shock Spikes proc rate of stun seems abnormally low when compared to how effective, potent and the high frequency of the Paralyze proc of Ice Spikes.

[Thoraeon]

The magic accuracy of spikes additional effects are probably based on magic skill. Shock spikes itself is enhancing magic, but Stun is Dark magic, so it is hard to say which one it would be. Since Drg has no native skill, they probably will rarely land.

Try going /sch and try either Light Arts (Enhancing Boost) or Dark Arts (Dark Boost), and see if there is a noticeable difference.

[Qeepel]

Hello,

Thank you for bringing this to our attention, and I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused for you. I see that another poster has been helpful in providing a possible solution to your trouble. Can you try it out and see if you are still having this issue? If so, please let us know if you are still having a problem or resolved your issue so we can either escalate the matter further or close out the thread.

Special thanks to Thoraeon for their help.

-SQUARE ENIX MODERATOR

[Ophannus]

I tried it out and did not notice a difference. Shock Spikes' magic accuracy is floored regardless. I compared DRG/BLM's Shock Spikes to DRG/RDM's Ice Spikes with Gungnir's Shock Spikes aftermath and finally compared to RDM99 Shock Spikes with 500 Enhancing Skill/400 Dark Magic Skill. My findings:

1) DRG/BLM's + RDM99 Shock Spikes are exactly the same potency. Both seem to stun 2-3% of the time even on extremely low level targets.

2) Ice Spikes, regardless of Enhancing Skill, whether from DRG99/RDM49 or RDM99 are the same potency. It seems likely that the chance for a target to receive the effect of paralyze from hitting a player with Ice Spikes is a static frequency; albeit a very, very high frequency.

3) On the other hand, the chance of a target receiving the effect of Stun from hitting a player with Shock Spikes is extraordinary low regardless of whether the player is DRG/BLM casting the spell "Shock Spikes" on themselves, is a RDM99 casting "Shock Spikes" on themselves with 500 skill, or a DRG receiving Shock Spikes from Geriskogul's aftermath.

Is it intentional for the "Stun" effect from Shock Spikes to be so abysmally low? Especially when you compare the stun rate to the potent and frequent paralyze of Ice Spikes? Ice Spikes' potency is static whether a RDM99 with 500 enhancing casts it, or a DRG/RDM with 120 Enhancing casts it, virtually regardless of what target hits me(i seem to be able to paralyze any level 80 mobs in Dynamis with ease as DRG99/RDM49 using Ice Spikes, but Shock Spikes almost never stuns mobs regardless of job, skill level or source of spell effect. Either it's intentional for the effect to be this weak(making it worthless as a spell, let alone aftermath) or the magic accuracy of the spell is bugged, like Tourbillion, Tachi: Ageha and Barbed Crescent)

As an aside, mobs' version of Shock Spikes is exponentially more potent than the form players get, roughly as potent as Ice Spikes. If I had to estimate the potency of Ice Spikes and Shock Spikes across players and mobs, I'd say it was something like this:

Players
Shock Spikes: 1-2%
Ice Spikes: 15-25%

Mobs
Shock Spikes 20-30%
Ice Spikes 20-30%


Considering how available stun methods are now(Stun, Weapon Bash, Shield Bash, Violent Flourish, Sudden Lunge, Thunderbolt, Leg Sweep, Flat Blade, Shoulder Tackle, Blade Bash to name a few...) it would appear that the potency of Shock Spikes for players is erroneously set low and is a waste of time/mp, considering the infinitesimally small and unpredictable chance of it actually stunning.

Lastly I'll just say this: The philosophy behind Spike spells is supposed to be the 'last line of defense' against taking physical damage for mage jobs. Blaze Spikes deal decent damage, and Ice Spikes invariable paralyze the mob with high frequency. Why on earth would a mage bother with Shock Spikes if the intended Stun% was supposed to be 1-2%. It doesn't add up. Spike spells were meant to be a last line of defense for mage but 1-2% isn't even chance, it's dumb luck, happenstance. Like why bother? Furthermore, that being said, if the effect of 1-2% chance at stun is intentional, why would it be useful for DRGs as an Aftermath for 20 seconds on Geirskogul, an incredibly weak WS, on a job that hardly pulls hate in battle with its enmity-shedding Jumps, but I digress. Shock Spikes stun effect must be broken, there's no other logical reason.

[Ophannus]

Following up this post

I've determined that the issue of the accuracy of stun with the Gungnir Shock Spikes Aftermath is an issue of Enhancing Skill/Magic Accuracy.


Platform: Windows
ISP: AT&T
Type of Internet Connection: dsl
Internet Connection Speed: 15Mbps
Date & Time: Present
Frequency: Every time Aftermath from Gungnir is up
Character Name: Ophannus
Race: Hume M
World: Odin
Main Job: Dragoon, Lv99
Support Job: Any job without enhancing skill
Area and Coordinates: Occurs in any area where Weapon Skills can be utilized.
Monster Name: Robber Crabs in Kuftal Tunnel.
Steps:
1) Gather 100% TP and use the weapon skill Geirskogul.
2) Let mobs attack you physically while Shock Spikes aftermath are up.
3) Notice that over hundreds or even thousand of attacks, stun almost never procs(about 1.4% proc rate with 0 enhancing skill on level 55 Robber Crabs).
4) Switch jobs to DRG/SCH and use Light Arts to acquire heightened Enhancing Skill.
5) Repeat steps 1&2. The stun rate of Shock Spikes rises significantly with higher Enhancing Skill(about 12.8% stun rate now with 300+ enhancing skill)

I believe this may be an oversight by Square Enix when giving Shock Spikes to DRG's Relic Weapon Aftermath. DRG has no native Enhancing Skill and since the proc rate of Stun is based on Magic Accuracy(usually via Enhancing Magic), the proc rate is floored for DRGs unless we either equip and maintain a VAST amount of Magic Accuracy gear or sub SCH and maintain Light Arts for enhanced skill. Would it be possible to base the stun rate of Gungnir's Shock Spikes Aftermath on Polearm Skill or give it a natural base proc rate that doesn't depend on a skill DRG lacks?

[Baudle]

Ophannus,

We are glad that Enhancing your Skill and Magic has resolved this as a possible technical issue, but we do also appreciate your concern that the numbers tied to Shock Spikes are suboptimal.

As this is feedback and not a bug, however, we ask you to file your thread on this in the General Discussion section, where this may be reviewed more thoroughly.

Any changes, news or updates regarding this matter will either be made directly onto these forums, or on www.PlayOnline.com and official FFXI forums.

Thank you for your further update, Ophannus, and we wish you all the best. Have an excellent day.

~GM Baudle