New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Byrth]

Well, if Time = Gil, then:
* Relics take about 135mil worth of time to get to 99 with negligable extra requirements (a few hours extra).
* Empyreans take about 165mil (dross) or 195mil (cinder) worth of time to get to 99 with some extra requirements (probably a week of playtime?)
* Mythics take 330mil worth of time to get to 99 with huge additional time-sink requirements
* HQ VW weapons take 15-25mil worth of time

So HQ VW weapons don't really rank among the other weapons in the hierarchy that you listed, and mythics trounce the other weapons in terms of effort even at 10k per Alexandrite.

[Horadrim]

Well, if Time = Gil, then:
* Relics take about 135mil worth of time to get to 99 with negligable extra requirements (a few hours extra).
* Empyreans take about 165mil (dross) or 195mil (cinder) worth of time to get to 99 with some extra requirements (probably a week of playtime?)
* Mythics take 330mil worth of time to get to 99 with huge additional time-sink requirements
* HQ VW weapons take 15-25mil worth of time

So HQ VW weapons don't really rank among the other weapons in the hierarchy that you listed, and mythics trounce the other weapons in terms of effort even at 10k per Alexandrite.

...?

I'll have to go back and read the post, but yeah... HQ VW weapons aren't even close. >_> Isn't that exactly why people are so anti-Skirmish? Because the intrinsic value is greater than the cost of effort?

Time = Gil I get it, but um...

• Relics take 4-5 months if you don't buy currency, solo. All the other requirements can either be soloed or duoed.
• Emps take 1-2 months if you don't buy pops/drops. All can be duo/trioed.
• Mythics take 4-6 months from scratch (can be less depending on previous progression). Requires 3-6 people depending on event/part of the quest. Some can honestly be soloed using certain jobs/tactics.
• VW HQ Weapons 1 fight to 1 year+ (personally I'm going on 1 year of VW now and have yet to see one).

Times are based around more of an average player's time and dedication over a "hardcore" or "elitist" player. Oh wait VW HQ weapons were never the "best" merely situational at "best" yet they can take much longer because of the stupid low drop rates.

Should be noted that a 90-stage Empyrean takes closer to a week. Otherwise, yep.

[Zagen]

So HQ VW weapons don't really rank among the other weapons in the hierarchy that you listed, and mythics trounce the other weapons in terms of effort even at 10k per Alexandrite.

HQ VW weapons weren't intended to truly matter, I used them as an example because they can take much longer to get than R/E/M take due to them not having a luck factor involved. Making the argument that R/E/M take longer to get so they should remain relevant is pointless when compared to stupid items that require sheer luck either on your part or other's parts (those selling cells). Also arguing for time when you're doing something designed to waste time is dumb.

Should be noted that a 90-stage Empyrean takes closer to a week. Otherwise, yep.

You hold "average players" to a higher standard than I've seen lately.

[Horadrim]

HQ VW weapons weren't intended to truly matter, I used them as an example because they can take much longer to get than R/E/M take due to them not having a luck factor involved. Making the argument that R/E/M take longer to get so they should remain relevant is pointless when compared to stupid items that require sheer luck either on your part or other's parts (those selling cells). Also arguing for time when you're doing something designed to waste time is dumb.


You hold "average players" to a higher standard than I've seen lately.

I'm an "average" player. I got to Chesma stage Verethragna in a weekend (read: a day, plus 12 hours on Tuulo... because he's an asshole), and if I devoted time to it daily, I could probably finish within a week. As much as I hate the first trials, I feel like the most time consuming part (the first 3 stages of Abyssea mobs) shouldn't take someone who's serious about it very long.

I don't take the game seriously enough nor endorse the elitism people display in it enough to really allow myself to be stressed over it -- but I feel it goes without saying an "average" player is someone who likes improving their character and is willing to devote time towards a goal if it is interesting and rewarding; but not so much as to stress themselves out. They can be kind of annoying, but most of the mobs drop other things that some players want, farming a few KI sets a day and then killing it is easy when you're offering up all of the other drops as free lot to people. Especially mobs like Cirein, for example, who is a zone boss and relatively easy to take down.

Maybe I'm more hardcore than I think I am, but I can get a lot done in an evening after work if I focus -- so I'd assume this kind of thing wouldn't be too hard. And I'm a guy with no real linkshell and very, very few in-game friends to deal with as a result of only being back a short time.

I think the people you're talking about (I definitely have seen them) are a bit less than average.

EDIT:

The only thing really holding me back from committing to building an empyrean weapon is my indecisiveness with regards to what job I'll play -- most of which comes from the fact that every one I pick "isn't used for anything" and thus the time investment doesn't seem worth it when I can just buy a nice item from the AH and use that to solo random junk around abyssea or do Reives -- which is what I end up having to do 90% of the time (or it is a job like DRG, which I get told that building the empy isn't really worth the hassle.)

[Byrth]

HQ VW weapons weren't intended to truly matter, I used them as an example because they can take much longer to get than R/E/M take due to them not having a luck factor involved. Making the argument that R/E/M take longer to get so they should remain relevant is pointless when compared to stupid items that require sheer luck either on your part or other's parts (those selling cells). Also arguing for time when you're doing something designed to waste time is dumb.

See, they don't have a luck factor involved because you can just buy the cells and assemble the weapon for 15-25mil. If Time=gil, then they only take 15-25mil worth of time. That's why I pointed them out specifically.

I personally obtained 2 Skirmish pieces (from Soul Pyres just doing Adoulin stuff randomly) and combined them with another guy's piece to do Skirmish. We got 3 weapons and some Ghastly Stones and stuff. Overall, not difficult at all and I didn't even have to go out of my way. I probably could have sold my investment for 15mil or so total (two II pieces) and bought a Pulse weapon, but Skirmish weapons are much better than Pulse weapons.

If there is no reason to obtain relics, mythics, or empyreans anymore, the bottom will drop out of the Dynamis Currency/Marrow/Alexandrite/Voidwatch item market and SE will have effectively shelved a huge amount of content. I don't think they'd do that.

[Taint2]

See, they don't have a luck factor involved because you can just buy the cells and assemble the weapon for 15-25mil. If Time=gil, then they only take 15-25mil worth of time. That's why I pointed them out specifically.

I personally obtained 2 Skirmish pieces (from Soul Pyres just doing Adoulin stuff randomly) and combined them with another guy's piece to do Skirmish. We got 3 weapons and some Ghastly Stones and stuff. Overall, not difficult at all and I didn't even have to go out of my way. I probably could have sold my investment for 15mil or so total (two II pieces) and bought a Pulse weapon, but Skirmish weapons are much better than Pulse weapons.

If there is no reason to obtain relics, mythics, or empyreans anymore, the bottom will drop out of the Dynamis Currency/Marrow/Alexandrite/Voidwatch item market and SE will have effectively shelved a huge amount of content. I don't think they'd do that.

The HMP market on Cerberus is virtually gone. If VW becomes the only way to upgrade Emp weapons they have already shelved that content. Dynamis currency/Alexandrite will live longer only because the content can be soloed/triboxed but if the prices get low enough then those markets will dry up too. Marrows are already selling for 9mil on Cerberus, there will come a point where it won't be worth it to farm them anymore.

[Zagen]

See, they don't have a luck factor involved because you can just buy the cells and assemble the weapon for 15-25mil. If Time=gil, then they only take 15-25mil worth of time. That's why I pointed them out specifically.

items that require sheer luck either on your part or other's parts (those selling cells).

Bolded since you missed it, just because you were able to build it doesn't mean that everyone looking to do it will be able to do so within a short amount of time.

I personally obtained 2 Skirmish pieces (from Soul Pyres just doing Adoulin stuff randomly) and combined them with another guy's piece to do Skirmish. We got 3 weapons and some Ghastly Stones and stuff. Overall, not difficult at all and I didn't even have to go out of my way. I probably could have sold my investment for 15mil or so total (two II pieces) and bought a Pulse weapon, but Skirmish weapons are much better than Pulse weapons.

I've thus far gotten 0 during my time in SoA zones which is most of my time. There's that luck issue again... I could buy the parts based on AH's bazaar prices if lucky it'll run me 9.5 mil if not so lucky 30 mil+ for a shot at the first tier or rather at a chance for a weapon I want. You could argue this cost can be divided between the participants which is true but again you're still paying for a chance at the weapon you want most, unless you happen to want them all equally. Oh and I'm competing with others for the weapon(s).

If there is no reason to obtain relics, mythics, or empyreans anymore, the bottom will drop out of the Dynamis Currency/Marrow/Alexandrite/Voidwatch item market and SE will have effectively shelved a huge amount of content. I don't think they'd do that.

The thing is they already said they weren't going to do that, and the markets are still crashing. I don't disagree destroying those markets without creating a new one would be a bad idea but then again when something like that is done in other games new markets are created to replace that. For all we know there will be a new "super weapon class" and it will be the "best" weapons to get from then on. Note I'm using best in quotes because despite what SE says and thinks most R/E/M even before SoA weren't the best weapon of it's type.

[Karbuncle]

The markets crashing because of all the uncertainty, thats just economics. No one knows if RME Are going to be sh*t on so a lot of people are playing it safe and waiting.

You also have to take into consideration those who want 95 Emps probably paid the 90~120k a pop for their HMP, and those remaining are waiting for the price to go down because of less demand from people willing to pay those prices. That happens with pretty much all items.

Alex/Currency/HMP/etc will almost assuredly always have a market despite fluctuations, so long as SE doesn't do what it is now and essentially killing it with uncertainty. a vague "Won't go to waste" isn't getting me to make a new Relic or invest 350 MIL on a Nirvana when i can do skirmish and outclass it in like, a few weeks for 1/10th of the price.

[Monchat]

im glad i make all those 99 empy right after the magian trial was introduced. its a hell now to do them, even if its half the price.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone,

I'd like to share a post from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to a comment that was picked up from an interview relating to the future of relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.

I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.

What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.

In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.

Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event.